Tesco - Parent/Child + disabled car spaces

dizziblonde

poet123 wrote: »

You really do seem to have a problem with children, oh, and capital letters!;)

No I have a problem with having to essentially manouver my way through a children's playground when I'm trying to get in and out of the hell that is supermarket shopping as quickly as possible. Add the delightful slope that supermarkets love to put just outside their doors to make steering that fully-laden trolley just that little bit more challenging and you've got a recipe for disaster that's going to see a kid running into a trolley one day - and the easy steer smaller capacity trolleys have the bottom of their load compartment just at the level of a child's head height... I can see the accident coming, and I can see whoever is unlucky enough to be pushing the trolley at the time being given a tonne of grief - and I really dislike it as they are so incredibly near moving cars and it only takes one to dart a tiny bit off the road (and they do on a regular basis as their parents are distracted) and again - there's another accident waiting to happen.

I don't like children being minimally supervised in an area with a high amount of car and foot traffic, where people are pushing around nice heavy metal trolleys at child height and they're ruuning around full-pelt doing the typical kid thing of not properly concentrating on where they're going... does that make me have a problem with kids that I can see the potential for some pretty ikky accidents?

I don't in any way shape or form have a problem with kids, I work with them most days (apart from when I fancy a day off), I do have a problem with them being allowed to run wild in spaces where it's not appropriate or safe for them to do so - and a crowded supermarket exit area/car park is not an appropriate area. These kids are running around full-pelt out there, and anyone who's spent any time with particularly toddler age kids knows - the co-ordination and motor control skills to stop quickly come on much later than the skills to get going up to a fairly quick speed! You've got people (quite reasonably) exiting the supermarket with fully ladent trollies that are not the most manouverable things in the world, and they're having to weave around these kids - and that's not right or fair on the people just trying to get their shopping done as quickly as possible and get out. Now of course someone's going to come back and say that people should be careful and shouldn't push their trollies there or something - but this is the store exit and front of a busy supermarket - it's not an appropriate place for the children to be running around playing tig or climbing on the trolley stacks (again I can see that one ending badly if one rolls lose from the stack while a child's climbing on it) and it's definitely not a safe place to be running around.

Yep... definitely an unreasonable child hater that I want those kids to be safe (and that I don't really want adults to be facing the swearing and abuse and blame that happens when one of these kids runs smack bang face first into a trolley). The best thing to do would be to have the P+C spaces further away from the supermarket door, with a fenced walkway through between the rows of cars (could even be covered since children are apparently allergic to rain these days) so there's no risk at all of kids darting off between cars or the like - move the whole accident waiting to happen away from the crowded store front etc because at least in our local Tesco the whole thing is a nightmare. It's not a playground - it's not an appropriate place for kids to be running around having fun... the entire world is not obligated to become a massive Ikea ball pool - there are places that are part of the adult world and children need to behave accordingly when in these areas.

poet123

All I can say is you must frequent a very child laden supermarket, and be in an area where children are genereally allowed to run wild.

My local superstore does not seem to suffer these problems. I have 4 children of varying ages, and they were always well supervised on car parks and in the stores, and behaved as well as they behaved everywhere else.

However, in all my years visiting such stores, I dont think I have ever seen the scene by the entrance that you so vividly describe. I have seen children become bored whilst the adults they are with chat to a friend they have bumped into on the car park or by the doors, but that is usually sorted out quickly by the parent. I agree, a car park is not a playground, and I have not seen it used as one.

However, none of that is what makes you appear to have an issue with children. It is the underlying venom in your posts, your obvious anger at those who do have children, and your charming turn of phrase. Maybe this is not intentional. but it is there, clear for all to see.

As I said I have 4 children, and do not see the need for these spaces, or for the world to be obligated to change to accomodate many parental wants, as opposed to needs.

That said, parents do have a difficult and often thankless job in the eyes of those who do not have or want children for whatever reason. To sucessfully bring up the next generation parents do need compromise and understanding from the world at large in some areas. They do also need to recognise that there are limits to what those compromises and accomodations need to be.

Ivory_Tinkler

Well said Poet....I think that dizziblonde's local supermarket and it's car park must be the exception rather than the rule because I too, have never seen this type of activity at either of the large supermarkets that I use. Yes, we all see the occasional bored/naughty child but they are not all that way. Talk about tarring all kids with the same brush!

And no, I'm not one of the people that think that P&C spaces are an entitlement but I do admit to using them in the past purely because they were just so convenient.

dizziblonde

I have anger at those who have children, want to abdicate all responsibility for them and believe the world owes them everything purely on the basis that they have children. I object to the fact that those without children are (frequently insenitively as you never know the reasons behind someone's childless status) stereotyped as callous, uncaring, insensitive, hedonistic psychopaths and how they are marginalized and discriminated against within society - and the ensuing knee jerk reaction whenever they dare speak out against the entire world being converted into some pastel-toned ballpool.

I object quite strongly to children running riot in spaces where it's not appropriate to be running riot in - I'm talking about shops, restaurants, carparks (I've winced seeing some kids come running full pelt out of our local leisure centre miles ahead of their parents as they're basically running perilously close to the traffic). I don't think it's unreasonable to not be happy if you go out to a restaurant and there are children running around - but if you dare express that view - you get jumped on as some rabid anti-child person who can't possibly understand and I don't think that's a fair way to treat people - but it's how the world is becoming, where those who don't have children are not entitled to a view or rights.

I'm sick of being told that I'm a second class citizen because I don't have children - it's especially unpleasant when the reason I don't have children is because of plumbing issues... so not only are you treated like dirt by society, but you have your nose repeatedly rubbed in it.

But ultimately at the end of the day - YOU have the child, YOU bring it up, not the state, not every single other person in the world and I'm sick of the sector of parents who constantly want to pass the buck and blame anyone and everyone for anything that happens other than taking on responsibility themselves for the human being that they brought into the world.

And yes by the way - our local Tesco has the carpark layout from hell - I remain convinced the designer was drunk in charge of a ruler when he planned it as it's stupid, it's flipping dangerous and it's rubbishly designed - and by the time they've yanked half the spaces out for Mr AutoWindscreen to tout for business, the car valet bloke in the corner's taken up his chunk of the carpark - there are no flipping spaces left!

dizziblonde

poet123 wrote: »

That said, parents do have a difficult and often thankless job in the eyes of those who do not have or want children for whatever reason. To sucessfully bring up the next generation parents do need compromise and understanding from the world at large in some areas. They do also need to recognise that there are limits to what those compromises and accomodations need to be.

I'm not responsible for bringing up your children (apart from when I have my work hat on). These small humans - are the ones you brought into the world - not me. You're not better than me because I don't have children - don't make that assumption. Don't make the assumption I don't have children for hedonistic reasons, for reasons of immaturity - I don't have children because it doesn't appear I can - and for people to make these constant assumptions that they are superior to me, that they're more worthy, that they deserve everything at the detriment of the others - because their plumbing works and mine doesn't... can you imagine how that makes me feel and that I have to live with that every single day of my life (because it never goes away).

My body doesn't work - does that make me redundant in this society because it sure as heck feels so.

woody01

dizziblonde wrote: »

No I have a problem with having to essentially manouver my way through a children's playground when I'm trying to get in and out of the hell that is supermarket shopping as quickly as possible. Add the delightful slope that supermarkets love to put just outside their doors to make steering that fully-laden trolley just that little bit more challenging and you've got a recipe for disaster that's going to see a kid running into a trolley one day - and the easy steer smaller capacity trolleys have the bottom of their load compartment just at the level of a child's head height... I can see the accident coming, and I can see whoever is unlucky enough to be pushing the trolley at the time being given a tonne of grief - and I really dislike it as they are so incredibly near moving cars and it only takes one to dart a tiny bit off the road (and they do on a regular basis as their parents are distracted) and again - there's another accident waiting to happen.

I don't like children being minimally supervised in an area with a high amount of car and foot traffic, where people are pushing around nice heavy metal trolleys at child height and they're ruuning around full-pelt doing the typical kid thing of not properly concentrating on where they're going... does that make me have a problem with kids that I can see the potential for some pretty ikky accidents?

I don't in any way shape or form have a problem with kids, I work with them most days (apart from when I fancy a day off), I do have a problem with them being allowed to run wild in spaces where it's not appropriate or safe for them to do so - and a crowded supermarket exit area/car park is not an appropriate area. These kids are running around full-pelt out there, and anyone who's spent any time with particularly toddler age kids knows - the co-ordination and motor control skills to stop quickly come on much later than the skills to get going up to a fairly quick speed! You've got people (quite reasonably) exiting the supermarket with fully ladent trollies that are not the most manouverable things in the world, and they're having to weave around these kids - and that's not right or fair on the people just trying to get their shopping done as quickly as possible and get out. Now of course someone's going to come back and say that people should be careful and shouldn't push their trollies there or something - but this is the store exit and front of a busy supermarket - it's not an appropriate place for the children to be running around playing tig or climbing on the trolley stacks (again I can see that one ending badly if one rolls lose from the stack while a child's climbing on it) and it's definitely not a safe place to be running around.

Yep... definitely an unreasonable child hater that I want those kids to be safe (and that I don't really want adults to be facing the swearing and abuse and blame that happens when one of these kids runs smack bang face first into a trolley). The best thing to do would be to have the P+C spaces further away from the supermarket door, with a fenced walkway through between the rows of cars (could even be covered since children are apparently allergic to rain these days) so there's no risk at all of kids darting off between cars or the like - move the whole accident waiting to happen away from the crowded store front etc because at least in our local Tesco the whole thing is a nightmare. It's not a playground - it's not an appropriate place for kids to be running around having fun... the entire world is not obligated to become a massive Ikea ball pool - there are places that are part of the adult world and children need to behave accordingly when in these areas.

Looks like you live in a 'p!key-populated' area then.
My children never run wild, 1 is in the trolley seat and the other holds onto the trolley. I also rarely see any others in the supermarket 'running wild'.

Maybe your experiences show the lack of class in the area where you live

kernewek

poet123 wrote: »

All I can say is you must frequent a very child laden supermarket, and be in an area where children are genereally allowed to run wild.

My local superstore does not seem to suffer these problems. I have 4 children of varying ages, and they were always well supervised on car parks and in the stores, and behaved as well as they behaved everywhere else.

However, in all my years visiting such stores, I dont think I have ever seen the scene by the entrance that you so vividly describe. I have seen children become bored whilst the adults they are with chat to a friend they have bumped into on the car park or by the doors, but that is usually sorted out quickly by the parent. I agree, a car park is not a playground, and I have not seen it used as one.

However, none of that is what makes you appear to have an issue with children. It is the underlying venom in your posts, your obvious anger at those who do have children, and your charming turn of phrase. Maybe this is not intentional. but it is there, clear for all to see.

As I said I have 4 children, and do not see the need for these spaces, or for the world to be obligated to change to accomodate many parental wants, as opposed to needs.

That said, parents do have a difficult and often thankless job in the eyes of those who do not have or want children for whatever reason. To sucessfully bring up the next generation parents do need compromise and understanding from the world at large in some areas. They do also need to recognise that there are limits to what those compromises and accomodations need to be.

Ok So I'll dip back in again. What an excellent post, couldn't agree more!

Ivory_Tinkler

dizziblonde wrote: »

I'm not responsible for bringing up your children (apart from when I have my work hat on). These small humans - are the ones you brought into the world - not me. You're not better than me because I don't have children - don't make that assumption. Don't make the assumption I don't have children for hedonistic reasons, for reasons of immaturity - I don't have children because it doesn't appear I can - and for people to make these constant assumptions that they are superior to me, that they're more worthy, that they deserve everything at the detriment of the others - because their plumbing works and mine doesn't... can you imagine how that makes me feel and that I have to live with that every single day of my life (because it never goes away).

My body doesn't work - does that make me redundant in this society because it sure as heck feels so.

Wow, chill out Dizziblonde. No-one is making you out to be a second class citizen because you haven't children. You are being way too sensitive here over a parking issue for goodness sake. Sure you are entitled to a view but you seem to be insulting anyone who does have children and throwing accusations at them.

I hope that you are able to sort out your "plumbing" soon but please don't use your own personal issues as an excuse to insult others who do have children.

poet123

dizziblonde wrote: »

I'm not responsible for bringing up your children (apart from when I have my work hat on). These small humans - are the ones you brought into the world - not me. You're not better than me because I don't have children - don't make that assumption. Don't make the assumption I don't have children for hedonistic reasons, for reasons of immaturity - I don't have children because it doesn't appear I can - and for people to make these constant assumptions that they are superior to me, that they're more worthy, that they deserve everything at the detriment of the others - because their plumbing works and mine doesn't... can you imagine how that makes me feel and that I have to live with that every single day of my life (because it never goes away).

My body doesn't work - does that make me redundant in this society because it sure as heck feels so.

I am really very sorry about your issues with conception, however, I think that you have other unaddressed issues with children, and with those who have them. Or your problem is causing you to become bitter, and that in turn is leading you to have this venom, this obvious rage towards "families"?

If you are constantly running into people who make you feel worthless because you can't have children, I find that very strange, because most people are sympathetic and concerned aabout such issues not judgemental and cruel. Harsh though it sounds it may be your attitude, which, (whatever you may wish to believe) is evident here,which is causing these reactions in people. Your perceptions of their views, rather than the reality of the situation.

You were if I remember, on a thread recently where the tack you took about the opinions of those without children was similar, that thread did not decry or invalidate the opinions of those without children, it merely said they could not speak from experience, only from observation. That is fact, not being nasty.

A friend of my mothers moved constantly, she always had bad neighbours apparently......we met another friend in town one day and were discussing that she had moved again, as yet again the neighbours were a problem. The friend turned to my mother and said, " Isnt it strange how everywhere she goes, she has a problem, it cant always be everyone elses fault can it?" That stuck with me, and when I come across a pattern and others seem to be acting unpleasantly towards me I tend to look inward and see if I may be the one causing the problem......many times I find something I have done that has acted as a catalyst for the action/words I am on the receiving end of.

kernewek

dizziblonde wrote: »

I'm not responsible for bringing up your children (apart from when I have my work hat on).

You're not responsible for bringing up other people's children, Full stop. Whether you've got your work hat on or not, that is the job of the parents, not teachers, social workers etc.

Sorry a little off topic I know