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Rosie75

shadowdragon wrote: »

Yes I was but the HND/C is HE funded, as are the HND/Cs in a University. Simplified or not, you cannot make such a statement as its incorrect, while I understand Research creates financial rewards for a University, to say thats what pays the Lecturers Salary is Rubbish,

The majority of a department's funding will typically come from research, rather than teaching, income. Every academic in a research-intensive university will be told by the management that the priority is research, and the survival of their post and department is dependent upon research rather than teaching.

mandragora_2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I I blame the schools for not educating their students to an understanding of the purpose of an HE system.

You'll have to join the 'I blame the schools' queue - it's over there by the door, snaking around the building. You'll join a lot of social workers, politicians, press-men and geysers from the pub.

Oldernotwiser

mandragora wrote: »

You'll have to join the 'I blame the schools' queue - it's over there by the door, snaking around the building. You'll join a lot of social workers, politicians, press-men and geysers from the pub.

But if an educational institution doesn't explain to its students what a university is all about, who else should do this?

melancholly

shadowdragon wrote: »

Yes I was but the HND/C is HE funded, as are the HND/Cs in a University. Simplified or not, you cannot make such a statement as its incorrect, while I understand Research creates financial rewards for a University, to say thats what pays the Lecturers Salary is Rubbish,

I am sure they have just like I had a Work Load Model and a Contract. This shows there research time/teaching time, and time allocated for Delivery/Marking/Tutorials as well as time for research. Therefore they are "Getting Payed to deliver and adminster Teaching" to students.

actually, a lot of lecturers will be paid by grants they have got for their own research... and do some lecturing as well.... not in all cases, granted, but from your posts i don't think you fully understand how university staff are funded or how they are assessed for progression in their own institution or for applying for other posts....... i think you're quite wide of the mark....

mandragora_2

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But if an educational institution doesn't explain to its students what a university is all about, who else should do this?

I'm not saying schools don't - see my earlier post (no. 74) - I'm saying don't blame us if the message doesn't always get through!

Oldernotwiser

mandragora wrote: »

I'm not saying schools don't - see my earlier post (no. 74) - I'm saying don't blame us if the message doesn't always get through!

I didn't mean to come across as anti teacher, although I do think that many younger members of staff don't understand this concept themselves.

surfsister

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But if an educational institution doesn't explain to its students what a university is all about, who else should do this?

Yes do agree that unis can be ver bad at explaining things that are not academic. We started on the first day with lectures as if we were old hands without hardly any info about the uni or how things ran, if it wasn't for a student union lecture we wouldn't have known about student support, printing at uni, how the term ran etc.

I don't think this is intentional the lecturers/tutors are there to teach and do so, but there is a gap for soemone to explain hw things run. I've learnt things as I go along by trial and error and only learnt about asking for a deferral on the last day of term at an ed of term lecture by the course leader. Think he was shocked that nobody knew about it after 3 terms!!!

The_One_Who

surfsister wrote: »

Yes do agree that unis can be ver bad at explaining things that are not academic. We started on the first day with lectures as if we were old hands without hardly any info about the uni or how things ran, if it wasn't for a student union lecture we wouldn't have known about student support, printing at uni, how the term ran etc.

I don't think this is intentional the lecturers/tutors are there to teach and do so, but there is a gap for soemone to explain hw things run. I've learnt things as I go along by trial and error and only learnt about asking for a deferral on the last day of term at an ed of term lecture by the course leader. Think he was shocked that nobody knew about it after 3 terms!!!

Why should departmental lecturers explain those things to you? Printing and student support are not their domain, and at least at my university everything is put online. Anything that's not online can be easily found out by asking someone. Everyone spouts about university being about 'independence' but still want hand-holding.

Oldernotwiser

surfsister wrote: »

Yes do agree that unis can be ver bad at explaining things that are not academic.

You misunderstood me; I was saying that the schools should be preparing students better for university. If you're bright enough to be at university then you should be bright enough to find things out for yourself rather than expecting to be spoonfed information.

andyrules

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

You misunderstood me; I was saying that the schools should be preparing students better for university. If you're bright enough to be at university then you should be bright enough to find things out for yourself rather than expecting to be spoonfed information.

trouble is onw, schools will (justifiably) do any amount of spoonfeeding to get results. I think there is a happy medium some where between the 'laissez faire' of our day and the working to the mark scheme and re-submitting of coursework / Btech of today.