Massive chip and pin theft

Altarf

opinions4u wrote: »

how did they manage to steal your pin?

Easy. They just watched her key in her PIN. If you don't know the PIN of the person in front of you in the supermarket queue, it is because you are not paying attention.

AngelaSinclair

Thanks all very much for the info. I've been reading around the net on this. One of the scariest things about it is that people do seem disbelieving when you say that somebody got your pin code - Opinions 4U, I think until Sunday afternoon I'd also have been somewhat skeptical.

James, thanks for the Which link - although not very comforting.

I've just had another paperfree letter about bank charges.

the_annoyed_customer

here's a link to the times money trouble shooter the exact same thing has happened in the first story and this is what she makes of it
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article6073037.ece

James

Remember the I Love PIN Campaingn?

And statements like:

"
Does chip and PIN change my liability for any fraud committed on my card?

There is no change in liability for the cardholder. Consumers remain fully protected from the cost of card fraud, provided they have not been negligent, as they are fully covered by the Banking Code.

Well you couldn't end up paying the cost of fraud for being negligent with your signature, so there must be a change in liability.

For Negligent now read Careless. (with your PIN)

Consumer Advice (Read the wording)

Just for interest one of the ways PINs are Captured (dodgy PIN Entry Devices).

It says, this type of fraud does NOT involve ATMs'. Sorry but the cloned cards and PINched PINs are then used to withdraw CASH.

This sPIN is costing victims dear. On the strength of the outcome of the Job v Halifax Case, let's hope AngelaSinclair and other victims are re-imbursed for their loss.

opinions4u

AngelaSinclair wrote: »

One of the scariest things about it is that people do seem disbelieving when you say that somebody got your pin code - Opinions 4U, I think until Sunday afternoon I'd also have been somewhat skeptical.

Not skeptical. A genuine question based on your statement. You don't seem to have answered it.

But as soon as he realized my pin AND card had been stolen - that it wasn't a cloning case - he started to clam up

I was actually more skeptical about masonic's comments (3,5 and 7) until I researched them for myself. He may well end up saving you a lot of money!

AngelaSinclair

opinions4u wrote: »

Not skeptical. A genuine question based on your statement. You don't seem to have answered it.


So far, the only ways I can imagine they got my pin is

a) shoulder surfing

or

b) some sort of device in the machine - though that seems even more elaborate - how would a bar person know where I put my card after making a transaction? Whereas someone behind me would see where I put it.

It all seems so incredibly targeted - did you see the post with the times article on it - exact same thing happened there.

The bar I was at was extremely busy and given I had my card on my
person in order to make a transaction at 23:56 on Saturday night, I can only imagine that the pin and card theft occurred straight after that.

I've had the same card since it was issued in 2007, it was due to be renewed next month. I've never had any problems, I've never had my pin written down anywhere or done anything else "negligent".

To give you more of an idea of the spending that followed it went like this - £300 at an atm, two transactions at a clothing store in east london worth over £340, one transaction at argos for around £115 then a second for £634 and then a series of tiny transactions followed by £50 cashbacks at an Asda store which took it up to the final amount. Then the card was stopped. I've looked into it and the clothing store didn't open until 11am on Sunday - they spent all of that money in the space of a few hours.

I'm shocked.

socrates

I am not doubting you.

However looking at things from the outside in.

They shoulder surfed as you said got your PIN number and then stole your card as well.

I think if you check with Argos they would not release goods to that value without ID. That would be a good place to contact as a transaction where those goods were ordered and then not taken would be something they would remember.

I believe besides the legislation mentioned this would be a good way to prove your case/mitigate your losses

socrates

On a lighter note - I know a number of females who could spend a lot more than that in a lot less than a few hours

minnie123

I don't know if this will help you but my sister got her bag stolen out of her car once and a lot of money was withdrawn from an ATM they used her pin (this was before the days of chip and pin) HSBC were funny with her saying she must have written down her pin number and they were not liable. We spoke to the police and found out people can obtain pins by lots of methods one where they need nothing but the card and some sort of machine. Anyway to cut a long story short when HSBC wouldn't play ball she contacted the financial ombudsman and HSBC then refunded her.

rb10

socrates wrote: »

On a lighter note - I know a number of females who could spend a lot less than that in a lot less than a few hours

Do you mean spend more than that? Otherwise your point seems kinda strange ... unless I'm missing something here!