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Very worried about my brother - *updated 30th May...*
freakyogre
Posts: 1,465 Forumite
Apologies first of all, this could become a very long post.
My brother has chosen to be homeless and lives in a tent in the woods. It isn't really allowed, but he isn't causing any harm.
He has been doing this for a few years on and off. He used to work and lived with other people and/or his friend. Something changed last year and he once again went back to "camping". He seems to enjoy it, although at times we are not convinced.
My sister, dad, step mum (everyone!) has tried talking some sense into him and tell him that what he's doing isn't quite right, but he doesn't seem to see what the problem is.
He says he enjoys it, but whenever he is with my sister, or myself he makes little comments like how nice it is to be warm, sit on a sofa, use a computer etc. He is not a materialistic person at all and doesn't really understand the need to have anything. I agree with him on this point, but have explained that I personally work(ed) bloody hard for the things I have (including a flat I rent) and deserve what I have, as does my sister who works her a*se off.
Anyway, like I say, this has been going on for years now and every time I see him I try and get to the bottom of why he chooses to live like he does, but never get a serious answer. He is very childish in some ways, but also very intelligent in others.
In the last month or so he has worried us even more by telling us that a group of lads if after him, they are apparently trying to kill him and he says they talk about torturing him.
On Sunday we were all at my sisters having a BBQ. Later on in the evening we (my sister and I) started talking to him again. Basically, the whole conversation started when we were discussing vets and how much they charge. He doesn't agree with the charges etc. which then got us on to the topic of council tax/rent/EVERYTHING!! My sister and I tried explaining that yes, it is rubbish that everything costs, but that is unfortunately how life is and it unlikely to change. I used my car as an example as had my tax due, yes, it's another cost, but I have to pay otherwise I don't use my car.
We got back onto the subject of the lads who are after him and he said it is a group of around 50 people (including girls) and they are always following him, wherever he goes. The logical option for us is get the hell away from there/them, but he doesn't see why he should. He hasn't done anything wrong but a rumour has been started, hence why the lads are after him (he wouldn't tell us what the rumour was at this point). We kept saying that there is nothing keeping him where he is, he doesn't have a job, so really could pack up and move anywhere (we have both offered to take him wherever he would like to go if it helps).
After probing him some more, he started saying that it didn't matter if he was dead and wanted these lads to come and torture him. He has managed to hide from them for now, but didn't seem bothered by the fact that they are threatening to kill him. We asked him why he was being like that and he said that his life was worthless. We tried to reverse the situation and asked him what he could tell us to do if we were in his position and he said he'd tell us to ring the police/report them. He hasn't done this as far as i'm aware, but his attitude is our lives are worth more than his. Even by using other examples like if we were attacked etc. he seemed to think more of us than himself. We tried to explain that we are all the same and if anything was to happen to any of us we would be devastated.
He dodged the topic of the rumour again and I said that the only thing I can think of that is SO bad that someone would want to hurt him, is if it involved a child. He finally opened up and said that someone said he did something with a 9 year old girl, the rumour got round and that is the reason these people are after him. I do not for one second believe the rumour and can see from his point of view why he should stay and fight it, but not if someone is threatening to kill him.
After 3 hours of talking we hadn't really got anywhere. We've all sort of known that something isn't quite right with him (sorry to be so un-PC, but unsure how to word it) as he thinks so differently to us. For example my sister would say she went to meet someone and bought a sandwich on the way, most people would accept that, he doesn't. He wants to know what is in the sandwich, which bread was used, how it was cut etc.
We talked to him about work as he hasn't got a job at the moment, but is looking. His attitude to work is that he wants to help people, but only in a certain way. Most of his previous jobs have been KP'ing in hotels/restaurants and he is good at it, but doesn't seem to enjoy it. He looks into things so much and doesn't seem able to just accept things are like they are. It turns out that a few years ago he applied for a job with the RAF but failed the entry test, one example of a question I have been given is "You have a yellow fruit in front of you, is it a) a banana b) an apple c) an orange". Most people would say a, but he put that it could be an apple depending on how ripe it was. Now in a way, he's right, but that's not what they're asking!
He said that wants to know how people think and why they think how they do, so we suggested something like psychology but he sees a barrier with anything we suggest (it costs money...so does everything!) We said that even if he gets a summer job in a hotel he could easily earn enough to fund himself through a course if he really wanted to do it.
Some days I think that he is older than me (by 2 years), it's not my responsibility to look after and leave him to it. Most other days I worry about him and the fact that we could quite easily receive a phone call to say he has been found dead. To be quite blunt, it scares the crap out of me. He is really underweight and walks miles each day and in the winter months I really do wonder how he survives.
Any suggestions on what we could do from here? My sister is also registered on here, so may be able to add more to this that I have forgotten. The only thing I will add is that suggesting he lives with either my sister or myself isn't an option due to various reasons, this is something we have already considered.
Thanks for any help.
Edit - please see newest post dated 30/05/09
My brother has chosen to be homeless and lives in a tent in the woods. It isn't really allowed, but he isn't causing any harm.
He has been doing this for a few years on and off. He used to work and lived with other people and/or his friend. Something changed last year and he once again went back to "camping". He seems to enjoy it, although at times we are not convinced.
My sister, dad, step mum (everyone!) has tried talking some sense into him and tell him that what he's doing isn't quite right, but he doesn't seem to see what the problem is.
He says he enjoys it, but whenever he is with my sister, or myself he makes little comments like how nice it is to be warm, sit on a sofa, use a computer etc. He is not a materialistic person at all and doesn't really understand the need to have anything. I agree with him on this point, but have explained that I personally work(ed) bloody hard for the things I have (including a flat I rent) and deserve what I have, as does my sister who works her a*se off.
Anyway, like I say, this has been going on for years now and every time I see him I try and get to the bottom of why he chooses to live like he does, but never get a serious answer. He is very childish in some ways, but also very intelligent in others.
In the last month or so he has worried us even more by telling us that a group of lads if after him, they are apparently trying to kill him and he says they talk about torturing him.
On Sunday we were all at my sisters having a BBQ. Later on in the evening we (my sister and I) started talking to him again. Basically, the whole conversation started when we were discussing vets and how much they charge. He doesn't agree with the charges etc. which then got us on to the topic of council tax/rent/EVERYTHING!! My sister and I tried explaining that yes, it is rubbish that everything costs, but that is unfortunately how life is and it unlikely to change. I used my car as an example as had my tax due, yes, it's another cost, but I have to pay otherwise I don't use my car.
We got back onto the subject of the lads who are after him and he said it is a group of around 50 people (including girls) and they are always following him, wherever he goes. The logical option for us is get the hell away from there/them, but he doesn't see why he should. He hasn't done anything wrong but a rumour has been started, hence why the lads are after him (he wouldn't tell us what the rumour was at this point). We kept saying that there is nothing keeping him where he is, he doesn't have a job, so really could pack up and move anywhere (we have both offered to take him wherever he would like to go if it helps).
After probing him some more, he started saying that it didn't matter if he was dead and wanted these lads to come and torture him. He has managed to hide from them for now, but didn't seem bothered by the fact that they are threatening to kill him. We asked him why he was being like that and he said that his life was worthless. We tried to reverse the situation and asked him what he could tell us to do if we were in his position and he said he'd tell us to ring the police/report them. He hasn't done this as far as i'm aware, but his attitude is our lives are worth more than his. Even by using other examples like if we were attacked etc. he seemed to think more of us than himself. We tried to explain that we are all the same and if anything was to happen to any of us we would be devastated.
He dodged the topic of the rumour again and I said that the only thing I can think of that is SO bad that someone would want to hurt him, is if it involved a child. He finally opened up and said that someone said he did something with a 9 year old girl, the rumour got round and that is the reason these people are after him. I do not for one second believe the rumour and can see from his point of view why he should stay and fight it, but not if someone is threatening to kill him.
After 3 hours of talking we hadn't really got anywhere. We've all sort of known that something isn't quite right with him (sorry to be so un-PC, but unsure how to word it) as he thinks so differently to us. For example my sister would say she went to meet someone and bought a sandwich on the way, most people would accept that, he doesn't. He wants to know what is in the sandwich, which bread was used, how it was cut etc.
We talked to him about work as he hasn't got a job at the moment, but is looking. His attitude to work is that he wants to help people, but only in a certain way. Most of his previous jobs have been KP'ing in hotels/restaurants and he is good at it, but doesn't seem to enjoy it. He looks into things so much and doesn't seem able to just accept things are like they are. It turns out that a few years ago he applied for a job with the RAF but failed the entry test, one example of a question I have been given is "You have a yellow fruit in front of you, is it a) a banana b) an apple c) an orange". Most people would say a, but he put that it could be an apple depending on how ripe it was. Now in a way, he's right, but that's not what they're asking!
He said that wants to know how people think and why they think how they do, so we suggested something like psychology but he sees a barrier with anything we suggest (it costs money...so does everything!) We said that even if he gets a summer job in a hotel he could easily earn enough to fund himself through a course if he really wanted to do it.
Some days I think that he is older than me (by 2 years), it's not my responsibility to look after and leave him to it. Most other days I worry about him and the fact that we could quite easily receive a phone call to say he has been found dead. To be quite blunt, it scares the crap out of me. He is really underweight and walks miles each day and in the winter months I really do wonder how he survives.
Any suggestions on what we could do from here? My sister is also registered on here, so may be able to add more to this that I have forgotten. The only thing I will add is that suggesting he lives with either my sister or myself isn't an option due to various reasons, this is something we have already considered.
Thanks for any help.
Edit - please see newest post dated 30/05/09
Grocery challenge - Nov: £52/£100
0
Comments
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Have the police been advised of the threats made against him? Maybe they should be, just in case anything did happen.
He sounds like one of those people who used to be called "different" because of their eccentricities but would probably have some more medical label now.0 -
Of course your brother should have every right to choose the lifestyle he wants.
Some people live in houses,some live in caravans..very few live in tents in the woods.
Of course living in a tent in the woods might be ok if you lived on some vast land mass such as north or south america or asia/africa.
The UK isnt really the place for it though unless you decamp to the wilds of scotland.
I suspect that your brother is in fact suffering from a form of mental illness as yet undiagnosed.
He's obviously intelligent and perhaps too intelligent in some respects.
He seems caught in the "analysis is paralysis" loop,a common psychological trait associated with such conditions as severe depression.
One thing is for sure..if the story about the gang is true,he is very vulnerable and this needs to be logged with the police and/or other agencies such as social services.
Because he is "different" he is vulnerable to group attacks such as this. Its a pack instinct. If he hangs around,certain amongst the pack will become emboldened and will finally attack.
How often do we hear of homeless people being attacked or set light to on park benches?
In the end,your brother will have to plot his own course.
You can talk to him as much as you like but he will remain trapped in the analysis is paralysis loop and unless there is some kind of intervention,he wont be able to break out of it.0 -
My half brother is a diabetic with a heart bypass and lives in his car (do not ask me how he taxes, MOTs or insures it - we don't know). He has no job, regularly has low blood sugar attacks, is stick thin and gaunt-looking and has no real concept of money or how it applies to him. I don't even think he's on benefits. He's nearly 50.
For years we have tried to help him. Every effort has failed. He is determined to live his life the way he wants to and no-one can change him. He keeps in contact once every few months with a text that just says : I'm ok. Occassionally we get christmas cards.
We've gone from being desperate to get it through to him this isn't normal to now being resigned he will never change unless he wants to, and I think that has to apply to your brother too. He has to want to change and right now he doesn't want to, either because he's being a daft !!!! or he's mentally ill.
As for the business over the rumour a) do you know for a fact it's a rumour or has it actually happened or could he be making it up and b) are 50 people really after him or does he have a touch of paranoia that might indicate a mental health problem?
I think unless you believe your brother needs sectioning under the mental health act there is nothing you can do to make him live a healthy 'normal' life."carpe that diem"0 -
Have the police been advised of the threats made against him? Maybe they should be, just in case anything did happen.
He sounds like one of those people who used to be called "different" because of their eccentricities but would probably have some more medical label now.
I'm not sure to be honest, i'd have to ask my sister as she sees him a lot more than I do (she lives in the same town as him, i'm almost an hour away).
The only problems I can see with telling the police (if he hasn't) is 1) he shouldn't be there to start with, so may get into trouble for that and 2) I can't see there's a lot they can do without following him 24 hours a day to prove this group is doing something =/Grocery challenge - Nov: £52/£100
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I'd be very concerned about the gang threats - exaggerated or not. Is there any way you could notify police even if he didn't? Not sure if they could do anything as essentially it's hearsay though.
Re lifestyle, camping etc. Would he perhaps be interested in an alternative lifestyle, I'm thinking hippy commune, woodsman, "ancient craft" type things? For example it used to be common in hazel woods to have a chap or two live out there - cut the hazel over winter, and work with it over summer?
"Normal" isn't necessarily the ony way to live
There are various "collectives" / groups of "alternative" people around... "She who asks is a fool once. She who never asks is a fool forever"
I'm a fool quite often0 -
Of course your brother should have every right to choose the lifestyle he wants.
Some people live in houses,some live in caravans..very few live in tents in the woods.
Of course living in a tent in the woods might be ok if you lived on some vast land mass such as north or south america or asia/africa.
The UK isnt really the place for it though unless you decamp to the wilds of scotland.
I suspect that your brother is in fact suffering from a form of mental illness as yet undiagnosed.
He's obviously intelligent and perhaps too intelligent in some respects.
He seems caught in the "analysis is paralysis" loop,a common psychological trait associated with such conditions as severe depression.
One thing is for sure..if the story about the gang is true,he is very vulnerable and this needs to be logged with the police and/or other agencies such as social services.
Because he is "different" he is vulnerable to group attacks such as this. Its a pack instinct. If he hangs around,certain amongst the pack will become emboldened and will finally attack.
How often do we hear of homeless people being attacked or set light to on park benches?
In the end,your brother will have to plot his own course.
You can talk to him as much as you like but he will remain trapped in the analysis is paralysis loop and unless there is some kind of intervention,he wont be able to break out of it.
I know he has a choice, my dad actually lives on a caravan park and loves it (ok, i'm making us all sound mad now!) I must say, I suggested this to my brother as apart from small bills it would be ideal. I visit them quite often and there is such a good community feel there, everyone will help each other without having to ask.
Funny you mention depression as my stepmum said my grandma received a letter from him (looks like it was written on his behalf though) and she said a similar thing. I haven't seen the letter though so can't really comment on that.Grocery challenge - Nov: £52/£100
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I'm just wondering if he has Asperger's, not being rude you see, it's just his analysis seems extreme? I'm not explaining very well am I
Is there any way of getting him seen by a doctor, though I imagine it would be very difficult.I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Old style MoneySaving boards.
If you need any help on these boards, please let me know.
Please report any posts you spot that are in breach of the Forum Rules by using the Report button, or by e-mailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com.
All views are my own and not of MoneySavingExpert.com0 -
Not being funny but can he live in your garden til this gang get fed up??? That is really horrible!!! Poor guy!
not much else to say sorry xYou may walk and you may run
You leave your footprints all around the sun
And every time the storm and the soul wars come
You just keep on walking0 -
My half brother is a diabetic with a heart bypass and lives in his car (do not ask me how he taxes, MOTs or insures it - we don't know). He has no job, regularly has low blood sugar attacks, is stick thin and gaunt-looking and has no real concept of money or how it applies to him. I don't even think he's on benefits. He's nearly 50.
For years we have tried to help him. Every effort has failed. He is determined to live his life the way he wants to and no-one can change him. He keeps in contact once every few months with a text that just says : I'm ok. Occassionally we get christmas cards.
We've gone from being desperate to get it through to him this isn't normal to now being resigned he will never change unless he wants to, and I think that has to apply to your brother too. He has to want to change and right now he doesn't want to, either because he's being a daft !!!! or he's mentally ill.
As for the business over the rumour a) do you know for a fact it's a rumour or has it actually happened or could he be making it up and b) are 50 people really after him or does he have a touch of paranoia that might indicate a mental health problem?
I think unless you believe your brother needs sectioning under the mental health act there is nothing you can do to make him live a healthy 'normal' life.
My sister said the same this morning, at the end of the day he has to want to change, there's nothing we can do to make him. It's hard though as if we leave him alone and anything does happen, I would feel like it was partly our fault.
With regards to the rumour, no I don't know whether it actually happened or if it's just a rumour, but I have to "side" with my brother (obviously if it ever turned out to be true it would be a different story). I don't think he will have made it up as really has no reason to but I do think he may be exaggerating the number slightly as it seemed to change when he was telling is. Even so, if 1 person was "after" him, i'd still be concerned.Grocery challenge - Nov: £52/£100
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With him living the way he does, the way he sees things might be different to the way they actualy are.
Sometimes we need someone elses perspective to help us make our minds up?
Maybe nobody is after him, and he dreamt it, you never know.I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Old style MoneySaving boards.
If you need any help on these boards, please let me know.
Please report any posts you spot that are in breach of the Forum Rules by using the Report button, or by e-mailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com.
All views are my own and not of MoneySavingExpert.com0
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