Nursery Fees - am I entitled to request a refund?

sarahg1969

Oh, duhh. Sorry I missed that paragraph!!

choccywoccy

We received the defence details through the post - the statement made by the chairman is unbelievable!! :mad: I will quote a FEW of his lies..

1. The sum paid covered the first half of spring term and for all but the last few days his son attended. When his son did not attend it was believed to be sickness rather than due to a complaint and staff hours and lunches has already been committed to.
3. There is no evidence of restraint for cutting clothes off. This had not been found by either my investigation as chairman or the Ofsted investigation. Indeed in the letter of complaint I had received from Mr * regarding these allegations there was no mention of restraint and this is the first I have seen of it on this claim form. His multiple allegations have been inconsistent throughout.:mad:
4 There are three levels of notice issued by Ofsted. Notice for improvement, formal warning and deregistration of a provider. Ofsted issued the notice for improvement to cover areas where procedures could be improved to support against a potential repeat of any of these allegations. (WRONG!! there are NOT 3 levels of notice - there are three STAGES that they would go through if they failed to act on the notice - it is a legal notice and they have to comply! they would only get a warning if they didnt and then if they still didnt do anything they would have registration removed but he is making out here that a less serious form of action was taken)
ensures a record of all accidents is kept. While an accident file is kept and all accidents are recorded until this time forms were removed for parents to sign at either home time or lunchtime depending upon when they were collected their child. The accident which Mr * son had was recorded but the form was not recovered from Mr *. The procedure is now to present the form to parents in person and add it to the accident file rather than relying on parents to return it. (OMG!! WHAT A LIE!!! :mad::mad:)
No other parents have had reason to complain before or since regarding the care of their child. (so? and anyway there WAS another complaint 12 months ago!!)
Mr * did not seem to content with the outcome of the initial Ofsted enquiry and he made another regarding the wording I used when informing parents of the enquiry outcome in my newsletter. Ofsted did not uphold this complaint either. (we WERE happy with the outcome and Ofsted DID uphold our complaint!)
I then received an abusive phone call from Mr * as I wouldn’t recommence my investigations...(my husband rang him and the conversation was that we were annoyed at the use of the word "exonerated" when telling parents of the outcome! however we did not ask him to recommence his investigations nor was he was in no way abusive!!!)
And then he wrote to me requesting the refund of fees. I believe he is trying to draw out his complaints for which there is no evidence. (but there IS evidence!!!! and we couldnt exactly ask for a refund until Ofsted had completed thier investigation!)

Ok - so I have written a word document to help me to sort this out in my head and by basically taking each sentance and writing down my response - I can answer every single one back easily. but I cant believe he is denying that he even had heard we were alleging that our son was restrained! the original letter we wrote to him clearly quotes what the staff said to me (that it took two of them because he was being so difficult and refusing to be changed!) and my complaint to Ofsted was exactly about this! they must have had this in writing from Ofsted as well?. I have also requested to Ofsted that under the freedom of information act they release to me all the documents to do with the investigation. they havce to do this within 20 days. can i use this as evidence in court?

I have to return a form to the courts by June 25th . it is a small claim track allocation questionaire. on it there is a bit that askes if we want an expert. will they use Ofsted as a witness for such a small amount of money? (£230)? can the judge get the witness to answer some questions on the phone or by paper?

there is also a section that says "other information" that may help the judge to manage or clarify the claim. Should I leave this blank or attach the Ofsted report to it? will I get to submit more evidence like our letters of compliant a statement and all the other documents i have asked Ofsted for at a later date? How long is it likely to take to get to court?

Finally - this man is lying...please tell me I have a good case - I just hope it comes across that way in court as I cannot bear the pompous **** to get away with this!!!! HELP!! any further advice is very welcome.

poet123

From memory, when all the documents havebeen returned to the court you will get a letter stating what date the hearing is. This will also tell you by what date all the evidence you intend to produce has to be sent to the defendant.

Do not send this info any further in advance than you have to(see my point above).

I would contact the court and ask if you can decide about an expert witness later in the day, and if so, put "Not yet decided "on the form. The details on the form will be sent to the defendent, so the less he knows the better.

I think you would have to arrange for the Ofsted inspector to attend, and pay his costs (which could be high) and claim them back if you win. To be honest the Ofsted documents will be just as good, as long as they are a full and detailed account of the procedures, actions taken, and actions required.

As long as you have copies of all correspondance you should be able to counter all his claims. if you behave impeccably and politely in the court room, that will counter his claim of you being abusive. If there was another complaint I would askthe complainant to put that in writing and submit it as evidence (again as late as possible)

Go to the ofsted site and print off their complaints details, which presumably show the stages and proccedures.

You will need to appproach this very methodically, and cover every point,so that there is no room for doubt.


You will need to be prepared for the format of the SCC. It usually begins with the claimant giving a statement of the background, then the defendant, then each side is allowd to cross examine the other. You need to make careful notes as they are speaking and watch for any contradictory statements and bring that up when you question them.

If you're sure of your ground you could request that the staff involved attend and answer the allegations personally. Obviously they will either refuse or be hostile, but it will show that you arecertain you are right. Depends how comfortable you are with confrontation, I did this with a furniture company, and it worked in my favour becuase I said why would I call this person as a witness if I was not sure what they had said?

I can only say again, cover all points, anticipate what the other side may ask you and be ready with a firm but polite answer, get asmuch evidence as possible, submit it as late as possible (get a receipt) and go intot the room and shake his hand before the case.

Good luck.

choccywoccy

Thanks! I am VERY sure of my ground - I have put this in my husbands name as he is far more comfortable with confrontation as I am. I think the staff will refuse - but yes - we can I think request witnesses - and as one of the staff has admitted it already (in person to my face - she called round crying and trying to hug me and apologising for the "trauma" she had put my son through!! I doubt she will admit this to anyone however...but worth a try?)

Methodial - yes - I took on board your earlier comments and found them bery helpful and informative - Poet123 - Thankyou so much for your advice - it is very helpful.

The Chairman might come across as polite and well...he is an officer in the army and very well spoken - so I am sure he will be equally as calm...this is what worries me - but i know my facts and have lots of evidence - I have the documents for the previous complaint and also copies of all the correspondence.

I will keep you posted. xx

poet123

Make a written account of when she called round, the date and time,who was present, what was said and her demeanour.(you will have to include this in the disclosure documents). if she doesnt atttend question the chair on her reaction to the statement.

If she attends ask her to confirm this happened. Be gentle, dont let it come across as bullying, rather that you are sorry to have to ask her, but you need the court to know the details of what happened. Few people can lie effectively under those cicumstances unless they are practised liars.

choccywoccy

thanks, i have dates and times etc. my daughters were witness as were her own kids but thats all..its a shame the management of the preschool couldnt show some of the same integrity...

would it also go in our favour that I have an email from the citizens advice regarding this - which states we have a good reason to claim but also advising us to seek further advice on whether we should also be claiming compensation for the distress caused...?

but we decided not to go for this because of the stress involved (for all involved) and the cost of course (it is a minefield area of the law we would be going into quite complex things... we also felt that it might look like we had fabricated the whole thing to gain compensation!? we are not like that. but would this perhaps prove that we are not out to seek trouble or revenge - or are bitter about the outcome - because surely we would be going to further lengths if we were?? we simply want to recoup some of the cost back because we lost out finacially through all of this. also to have an acknowlagment that they were wrong. or would this be irrelevent to mention?

poet123

You can actually claim for things other than direct out of pocket expenses in the SCC. There would have been a question on the original claim form. It is usually used for example in the case of "loss of enjoyment" of a holiday, and you would need to quantify what that loss cost you "emotionally" but it would have been applicable in this case too I would have thought.

It may be too late now, ask,if not consider what other arrangements you needed to make, did that incur cost, inconvenience, etc. Did the expereince put you off childcare, upset your son, etc.

If it is too late, then yes, I would mention in your statement that you were claiming purely for the refund and this does not take account of the other things mentioned above, and givve the detail. This would then fall under other info for the judge to consider, and is important. Take your time and consider how the whole incident affected you and your family, then give an honest account of that.

Cases usually take around 6/8 weeks to come to court.