Nursery Fees - am I entitled to request a refund?

lindos90

What an interesting thread. I have three children, two of which had quite severe constipation, and had to be on quite strong medicine. Bacause of this, I have LOTs of experience with poo of all consistancies!:rotfl:

I have to say that I have never concidered it necessary to cut my kids pants off, even when their meds have been alittle TOO productive IYKWIM!

Its all about assessing risk appropriatley, if someone has had a RTA and the Dr needs to assess his life threatening injuries urgently, then yes, cut the jacket off, instead of causing pain and possible further damage.

BUT If a child has done a poo, however messy, i would not think there could possibly be justification to risk using scissors, as it poses much more risk than any potential mess, any quick movement and his skin could have been cut!

I obviously dont know exactly what happened in the situation, and the OP can only know what she can deduce from the staff, but one of my reactions was that the staff appeared to have an overtone of 'punishment' in their actions toward the child, which is very concerning.

Because of my childrens bowel problems, I have done a fair amount of research into toilet training problems, and actions like this can give kids hangups for years!

Thank God your child is out of there, and hopefully investigations will go further.

My youngest goes to a similar setting, small village preschool, run by the staff/commitee, out of interest I'll ask the manager what her opinion is, and post if its helpful. (Im hoping its not the same one!!!!!!!):rotfl:

mrcow

elainew wrote: »

Its going to be one of those things that no one will agree with so lets agree to differ

But where and when were you taught that it is acceptable to remove soiled clothing with scissors?

choccywoccy

elainew wrote: »

How dare you--I'm glad i dont either with moaning parents like you ! Look after your own child then instead of sending it to a nursery where staff arent qualified to do so.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

read my post sweetie - they had NVQ 3 - equiv to todays NNEB Diploma. I thought I was paying for quality childcare like anybody else who is juggling a large family, mortgage and trying to keep thier business afloat does - every mother knows that leaving her child behind in childcare whilst she goes to work is never easy at the best of times so to discover what my baby had been through when I thought he was happy playing sickend me to the core.

You cannot go around telling people that put thier children into a childcare setting to "look after thier own child then" because they have complained that thier child has been involved in a horrific incident. You obviously have NO idea of the trauma my son was put through that day - he was in SHOCK ffsake - his nose had been bleeding, and the distress this has caused us as a family cannot be measured - everybody should expect for thier child to be treated with the utmost respect and senstivity and not pinned down by these bullying adult women and have his clothes cut off.

The image in my head of my baby screaming and kicking and bumping his face whilst they did this is engraved on my mind - and you say I am WRONG to complain? unbelieveable.

Your comments towards me being a "moaning parent" and "overprotective Mum" and saying that children who have soiled "need to be dealt with" by using methods of restraint and sharp implements quite frankly.. STINKS and I bet there are a fair few people reading your posts who are equally disgusted by your comments.

susancs

As a Manager of an Early Years Setting, who also tutors NVQ level 3 courses and sits on several pre-school committees, I was horrified to read that any child could be treated in such an unacceptable manner by qualified staff. I would have no hesitation in instigating severe disciplinary actions against members of staff who behaved in such a manner in my setting . You had an absolute right to expect that trained qualified staff would be able to deal with a case of soiling, without the need to physically restrain a child and cut off clothing. They are obviously in receipt of Early Years District partnership (EYDP) funding from your Local Authority and I would contact them to discuss the incident, as I am sure the Community officers would be keen to visit. You may also find that after your complaint, OFSTED may pay a surprise inspection visit sooner than expected. Under the Every Child Matter Outcomes (Childrens Act 2004) that all settings are judged by, ensuring children are kept/feel safe and secure is a core outcome. Being held down by staff and his clothes cut off him is not going to make him feel safe and secure. I really hope that this has not put you off sending your child to pre-school as most are very good, with professional, trained and dedicated staff and offer great opportunities for your child's all round development through play and social interaction with peers.

susancs

elainew wrote: »

I think this is true--a friend of my dd's had an accident at school and they phoned the parent to come and clean them up

Under the Disability Disrimination Act 2005, this should not happen.

lindos90

susancs wrote: »

Under the Disability Disrimination Act 2005, this should not happen.

Depends on the definition of disability, 'perminent and substantial?' If it was a child with a perminent disability, then they would have acceptable measures in place, as 'incontinence' may be part of the disability. An 'accident' can happen to any child

My son once had an 'accident' like this at school, I was called at work and told that the staff were not allowed to assist him clean up, and change his clothes as it involved his 'genitals'. They asked me to drive home 50 miles from work to the school to clean him up......

Im very pleased to say though, that in the mean time before I got to the school, a teaching assistant took the 'pragmatic' approach, asked a colleague to stand with her to 'cover her' and helped my son to take his pants off and clean up. (No scissors in sight!!)

I commended that staff member, I sent her a big bunch of flowers too, as she had really put herself in a difficult position at work for doing that for my son.

mrcow

susancs wrote: »

Under the Disability Disrimination Act 2005, this should not happen.

Since when has cr**ping yourself been classed as a disability?

We've all done it!

pulliptears

mrcow wrote: »

Since when has cr**ping yourself been classed as a disability?

We've all done it!

true, but usually after a few :beer:

Poppy9

mrcow wrote: »

Since when has cr**ping yourself been classed as a disability?

We've all done it!

Speak for yourself:p:D

lindos90

:rotfl::rotfl:.

So...getting back to the OPs question, can they get their money back?

You need to look at the contract with the pre school, how much you pay in advance etc, and how much notice you have to give to leave.

I would have thought that you would definatly have to pay for any sessions already taken, upto the day you removed him, but the pre school may argue that they can not fill places mid term, so they would loose out if they refunded you for the rest (rather like booking a hotel ifkwim)

Unless they have a waiting list, and can fill the place straight away, but then that might also be at their discression, depending on the contract, and it sounds like they are not going to be that helpful.

Was this payment for:
1)the spring term (january to easter, with you removing him partway through)

2)in advance for this current term, easter to july, (which you have not taken him at all?)

3)calculated by you, from the day you removed him, to the end of that term.

I understand it must be galling to possibly not get your money back though, especially in these circumstances.

The extra £65 is an anomolly though, if it is a voluntary contribution, but you were automatically charged for it, its not voluntary, if they cant survive on the rates they charge, they should slightly increase their session charge.

Talked to my OH about this (he is a teacher) he says that ofstead 'have no teeth' they just come, assess and recommend, they cannot enforce or prosecute. The LA education department do the funding, so they would need to be told, but not sure what they could do interms of investigation/complaint.

Might be the small claims court would be a way to go re money, but if its in the contract that payment is none refundable, you would be unlikely to win as it would be looking at the legallity of the contract they had with you, not that they dont deserve to be paid because of how they treated your son.