Anyone sent their dog off to training camp??

foreign_correspondent

Marshallka - I dont think it is the case that "you are the problem", just that the dog needs to behave for you, not for some trainer who lives miles away!!!

It's no good if the dog is perfectly behaved for Joe Bloggs, dog trainer, but not for his owner, which is why you need to be involved in the training. You mention Bark Busters - I have heard they are a bt hit and miss as they are a franchise and the trainers vary a lot.

Generally, it is recommended that people look for a behavioralist or trainer who is accredited by the APDT, as anyone can say they are a behaviouralist or trainer, and know naff all about dogs! http://www.apdt.co.uk/

good luck

foreign_correspondent

marshallka - you may also want to look for someone who is experienced with collies - it appears that the 'dog psychologist' you set on may not have been, if she was at a loss - the sort of behaviour you describe isnt unheard of in collies!! ... there are several breed rescues for border collies which may be able to advise you of someone they have had success with - which area of the UK are you in?

For the £650 that resedential training would cost, you could pay for a lot of training sessions with someone good, to work with you and the dog!

orlao

I'd agree with the OP who say there is no point sending the dog unless you go too!

A lady at work did this with her GSD.....a young boisterous, untrained dog with a novice owner and the dog did everything required by the trainers but still walks all over her (literally:eek:) I've met her dog and he's not especially difficult just very strongwilled.

If I was in your situation, I think about changing vets .....I don't blame any vet not wanting to get bitten but they could have given you more constructive advice....any vet who advised me to "get rid" would soon find out who was being got rid of!;)

In the right circumstances there is a case for anti anxiety meds, this appears to be a very longstanding problem so IMHO it would be unrealistic to expect to solve the issue in a matter of weeks but that is something that could be worked on with a good trainer and with the support of your vet....as FC says £650 could go a long way towards that...

Regarding the vet visits in the near future, would it be possible to sedate the dog at home (with tablets) and have the muzzle on at home? If it would save yet another battle at the vets? At my old vets, they often treated nervous dogs in their car or sedated them outside to reduce stress, quite amusing one day watching them carrying in a bullmastiff.....who was snoring very loudly by that point.

The other thing is that your (understandable) anxiety might not be helping a sensitive BC, is there anyone else who could take the dog to the surgery? Not having a go at you but it is amazing how much animals pick up as far as our nerves are concerned.

marshallka

orlao wrote: »

I'd agree with the OP who say there is no point sending the dog unless you go too!

A lady at work did this with her GSD.....a young boisterous, untrained dog with a novice owner and the dog did everything required by the trainers but still walks all over her (literally:eek:) I've met her dog and he's not especially difficult just very strongwilled.

If I was in your situation, I think about changing vets .....I don't blame any vet not wanting to get bitten but they could have given you more constructive advice....any vet who advised me to "get rid" would soon find out who was being got rid of!;)

In the right circumstances there is a case for anti anxiety meds, this appears to be a very longstanding problem so IMHO it would be unrealistic to expect to solve the issue in a matter of weeks but that is something that could be worked on with a good trainer and with the support of your vet....as FC says £650 could go a long way towards that...

Regarding the vet visits in the near future, would it be possible to sedate the dog at home (with tablets) and have the muzzle on at home? If it would save yet another battle at the vets? At my old vets, they often treated nervous dogs in their car or sedated them outside to reduce stress, quite amusing one day watching them carrying in a bullmastiff.....who was snoring very loudly by that point.

The other thing is that your (understandable) anxiety might not be helping a sensitive BC, is there anyone else who could take the dog to the surgery? Not having a go at you but it is amazing how much animals pick up as far as our nerves are concerned.

I have got my own muzzle now, we bought one last week and as for the anti anxiety meds, we have asked for some for tomorrow night. They are ringing me in the morning about this and then I have to go and collect them (if they will give me some) ready for the evening appointment. He is not as bad as people think in the sit, stay, down etc but its just the noise and pulling and he even cuts his legs in the process when we take him out. Its unbearable and nothing has worked on this one. He has not been allowed to run riot and in the house he is excellent but when people come and talk nice to him he is jumping up and then it turns to a growl. He only got inside the vets last week and there were no other dogs at this time and he just snarled at the 3 receptionists constantly (in between the horrific noises). I do understand what you are saying about my anxiety not helping with him but I do try to stay calm. He is very protective of me really and that is what the doggie psychologist said last time. She tried to hold the lead and I had to run back to the house for a poop bag and he pulled her and cut his legs to bits. We had to come home to bandage them before walking him again.

My main problem is the vets and the walking on the lead. I cannot walk him late at night or early morning as the noise would wake the entire street up. Also the growling at people after he has greeted them first. People then think "nice dog" and then he is fine until they talk nice to him.

He has NEVER bitten anyone though.

marshallka

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

marshallka - you may also want to look for someone who is experienced with collies - it appears that the 'dog psychologist' you set on may not have been, if she was at a loss - the sort of behaviour you describe isnt unheard of in collies!! ... there are several breed rescues for border collies which may be able to advise you of someone they have had success with - which area of the UK are you in?

For the £650 that resedential training would cost, you could pay for a lot of training sessions with someone good, to work with you and the dog!

Thanks for that foreign correspondent, I have had to try a different place to take him for a run just of late cause of doing more damage to the eyes so we drove to some fields and saw the farmer coming out with the tractor. I asked him if we could let him have a run (no sheep around of course!) and we said he was a very excitable mad dog. He took one look at him and just said "well hes a collie isn't he!!". He quite understood.

puddy

omg, i havent read the rest of the thread yet but this exactly what we have done today, i will expand further on my thread (help with my aggressive dog), but we took him for a consulation yesterday and booked him into doggy boot camp today for 2 weeks. i am feeling sick at the guilt, he must be so scared and upset tonight, but we have to do it to help him. when we get him we then have 3 lessons so that we learn how to change as well has integrating what he has learnt. sigh

marshallka

jenner wrote: »

omg, i havent read the rest of the thread yet but this exactly what we have done today, i will expand further on my thread (help with my aggressive dog), but we took him for a consulation yesterday and booked him into doggy boot camp today for 2 weeks. i am feeling sick at the guilt, he must be so scared and upset tonight, but we have to do it to help him. when we get him we then have 3 lessons so that we learn how to change as well has integrating what he has learnt. sigh

Jenner, I hope yours is OK. Where is it?? I have thought about this again and I could not let him go for that long I don't think. I am going to look into one to one training I think.

puddy

i'll pm you with the details. i just found him on a website and planned to see some other ones too but we felt comfortable with him and saw how our dog was with him.

i understand what you say about him being away that long. i suppose i have translated it in my mind to the equivilent of a child who needs help for a behavioural problem or a hospital stay. yes we definately need to know what to do, but at the momnet, he is so out of control that when we try techniques, he doesnt recognise us. we need to break down his behaviour which is out of control in order that we can learn what we need to do in a way that he will respond to.

WolfSong2000

marshallka wrote: »

He will sit, he will stay, he will come back at command but he will NOT go for a walk without making these awful noises and has since a pup and also growling at people that talk "nicely" to him. We can but if a stranger does then he waggs and then growls at them. He is obedient to a point but on the lead and outside the home on the lead he does the whining and spinning and pulling and at the vets he is just goes beserk. He is great with all of us and we understand about the stimulation things but we do constantly try. He is not left alone much at all and is great when left alone and has never ever chewed anything. Its just these two simple things of being able to walk him and getting him to not growl at people and other dogs. We do muzzle him at the vets but getting the muzzle on is a nightmare.

If you actually heard the noise he makes when he is on the lead you would understand what I mean. The vets cringe when they hear it too. I know its excitement too but its contant on the lead. It makes walking him a chore when it should be a pleasure.

Hhhmmm....sounds as if he hasn't bee socialized properly? As for the tail wagging, not all tail wages = happy dog. A stiff, high-held tail = bad. Not enough people have a decent grasp of dog body-language and this can cause problems. When the people talk nicely to him, do they bend over him or smile, because both of these can be seen as threats by dogs which haven't had the necessary socialization. As for the lead, thing, sounds as if he's never got used to walking on it properly...have you tried putting it on at home and walking him round his own territory, working on the "heel" command (I have 2 commands for lead and general walking..."heel" = dog stays right beside you; "close" = dog allowed to wander a big, but still has to stay fairly close). A lot of the anxiety could be coming from you...if you're anticipating it, the dog is going to pick up on it, so try and stay calm and relaxed as possible, even when the dog is going beserk. Work on rewarding even small improvements out on walks, and try and ignore bad behavior. Maybe try clicker training to give your dog something to focus on while training him to walk on the lead? Collies should excel at clicker training. Find out if he's treat or toy motivated though, and do your research into the method as it's absolutely imperative that you're consistent, or you'll just give the dog mixed signals.

When you're introducing the dog to someone new, do it on "neutral" territory (i.e. not your house/garden). Have the person hold a treat/favorite toy and most importantly, wait for the dog to approach the person. Men, especially, are terrible for this and always approach the dog, even when you tell them not to :rolleyes:. If the dog approaches the person, the dog is in control and will be calmer. If possible, have the person crouching or kneeling so he/she doesn't lean over the dog. Also tell them to avoid eye contact and not to bare their teeth when they smile, as all of these can be seen as aggressive behavior.

I've had to deal with a basenji cross, who is an absolutely psycho of a dog...he's literally mentally damaged and if he takes a dislike to someone (often for no reason) he *will* attack them. Trick with him is to wait for him to come to you, avoid eye contact, stay calm and relaxed and keep an eye on his body language . To date he's growled at me (don't know anyone he hasn't growled at...little weirdo will roll on his back for a tunny scratch (submissive behavior showing he trusts me), then growl and whine while I'm doing it...sends out totally contradictory body language signals, so you have to be careful with him.

marshallka

WolfSong2000 wrote: »

Hhhmmm....sounds as if he hasn't bee socialized properly? As for the tail wagging, not all tail wages = happy dog. A stiff, high-held tail = bad. Not enough people have a decent grasp of dog body-language and this can cause problems. When the people talk nicely to him, do they bend over him or smile, because both of these can be seen as threats by dogs which haven't had the necessary socialization. As for the lead, thing, sounds as if he's never got used to walking on it properly...have you tried putting it on at home and walking him round his own territory, working on the "heel" command (I have 2 commands for lead and general walking..."heel" = dog stays right beside you; "close" = dog allowed to wander a big, but still has to stay fairly close). A lot of the anxiety could be coming from you...if you're anticipating it, the dog is going to pick up on it, so try and stay calm and relaxed as possible, even when the dog is going beserk. Work on rewarding even small improvements out on walks, and try and ignore bad behavior. Maybe try clicker training to give your dog something to focus on while training him to walk on the lead? Collies should excel at clicker training. Find out if he's treat or toy motivated though, and do your research into the method as it's absolutely imperative that you're consistent, or you'll just give the dog mixed signals.

When you're introducing the dog to someone new, do it on "neutral" territory (i.e. not your house/garden). Have the person hold a treat/favorite toy and most importantly, wait for the dog to approach the person. Men, especially, are terrible for this and always approach the dog, even when you tell them not to :rolleyes:. If the dog approaches the person, the dog is in control and will be calmer. If possible, have the person crouching or kneeling so he/she doesn't lean over the dog. Also tell them to avoid eye contact and not to bare their teeth when they smile, as all of these can be seen as aggressive behavior.

I've had to deal with a basenji cross, who is an absolutely psycho of a dog...he's literally mentally damaged and if he takes a dislike to someone (often for no reason) he *will* attack them. Trick with him is to wait for him to come to you, avoid eye contact, stay calm and relaxed and keep an eye on his body language . To date he's growled at me (don't know anyone he hasn't growled at...little weirdo will roll on his back for a tunny scratch (submissive behavior showing he trusts me), then growl and whine while I'm doing it...sends out totally contradictory body language signals, so you have to be careful with him.

Yes ours does that at times. You can be stroking him and suddenly he will growl but still lick you too. Its weird and we do not encourage that, we just leave him be then and always have. He has never bitten or even snapped at anyone though. As regards the treats/reward thing when we are out, you could carry a joint of prime beef and nothing would stop his whining etc. Nothing distracts him when he is out at all. He plays a lot at home. He heads a ball back to you and actually throws a ball to you to play catch and he knows every word I say too and is wherever I am going before me.....he can actually open doors by using the handles. He will sit and stay even when his dinner is on the floor and then go to it when he is told. He will ask nicely for things by sitting on his bum and waving his paw. Its just this loud (and I mean loud) yelping noise.

We bought a treat ball today and got the james wellbeloved treats too but he is not interested in that one. I do have anxiety probs with him because of the noise like he has been attacked or run over. People actually come out of their houses to see what is happening:eek:.

The lead thing has always been a problem. In fact his first collar (proper one) was a big problem. He walked belly to the ground as if we had placed a house brick around his neck. He hid under furniture too and would not come out. He has not had the proper socialisation as we have put him in another room when people come as he is just too much and I do tell people to just ignore him but they insist on patting him and getting him over the top excited and then he growls. I realise we have done it all wrong but I want to get things right if i can now. Its always been the noise thing that has stopped us enjoying walking him. The pulling was not the biggest problem as that could be overcome but the noise is horendous.