Advice on Teeth Whitening Discussion Thread

jasperconran

brook2jack wrote: »

And now in their own words a beautician who was ripped off by a whitening company and a representative of BABTAC (see above) they're hardly biased

"Hi LooLoo and everyone else concerned with teeth whitening.

I was approached by teeth whitening company Mist Air Beauty last November. I was told the system was completely safe, completely legal and was becoming massively popular. After looking and reading info (what limited info there was) seeing the masses of ads in the popular trade magazines, Professional Beauty et al, and asking the clients in my salon if they woud like it, it did indeed look like this was a great business concept - the companies flogging this stuff were also - and still are - exhibiting at all the big shows. So, I bought the system for £4,000 plus VAT. The product uses 6% Peroxide.
And what a nightmare ever since.

Not only is the treatment UNpopular, I received several anonymous threats of being sued within 2 weeks of advertising the treatments, ( I assume fron dentists in my area) spent hundreds and hundreds of pounds on advertising and print materials, and have indeed been told by Trading Standards that IT IS ILLEGAL to supply treatments that contain more than 0.1% peroxide in the UK and if I carry out any treatments I would be prosecuted. Period.

Strangely, Mist Air Beauty Limited refuse to take my calls, I have had no reply to letters sent to Bank of Scotland with whom I took out a rental agreement for the equipment, the broker who arranged it all said "sorry it's nothing to do with us" and I've just spend a further £240 with a solicitor to see what I can do about it all.

So please, please, please do not even think about buying ANY teeth whitening system, because you'll be stuck like me, and I'm sure lots of other people, with worthless equipment that I have to pay for, for the next 4 years.

As regards BABTAC and the other professional organisations - please do something!!!! It's not good enough to post a statement on your site months after the trouble has started. Therapists and the industry as a whole need your heavyweight action. Stop these unscrupulous suppliers advertising, stop them exhibiting at shows that you sponsor. Someone needs to DO something!!

Sorry everyone for ranting, but I'm so frustrated. I'm just an ordinary person trying to make a living and provide for my family and I'm tired of getting ripped off."

"Hi JenSta

Ow, that hurts!

We DID do quite a lot.

We did one hell of a lot of research to establish exactly what the situation actually was; nobody really wanted to talk about it, and it took us (me personally, actually) a lot of time. As a result of our work several insurers now refuse cover.

We told all our members OVER A YEAR AGO through our magazine, and on our website (both in the public and members' area) that teeth whitening was illegal.

We put a 3 page feature in Professional Beauty in February saying the same thing. Strange that most magazines (who take ads from teeth whitening companies) didn't run with it...

We accept NO advertising from teeth whitening companies in our magazine, Vitality - but we can't stop the other mags from taking it. We will NOT have a teeth whitening company on our exhibitions, seminars and events but, again, we can't stop others from doing so.

We have already helped quite a few members and even non-members with legal fights (if you're having trouble contact me).

We have helped quite a few journalists (print and broadcast) put their news and editorial features together.

I have hung around as many Forums as I can to help therapists and to spread the truth when it's needed!

What else could we do?

Regards

PHILIP SWINFORD
Marketing Services Manager
BABTAC"

I will aim this reply at brook2jack as he/she seems to be the only person on here is not rude unlike TS and Welshdent. Brook2jack has not resorted to name calling and rude behaviour. So I will talk to Brook2jack ONLY.

Brook2jack seems to be the only person who can see that I am indeed a loyal person, who is defending their friend and I think understands where I am coming from. I have read thru your post above, the person talks about 6% peroxide which is high, we have been advised by numerous peeps that the gel my friend uses produces no more than 0.1% peroxide which is well below the legal limit.

I have not had a chance to read your post thoroughly brook2jack, so could you let me know please where you got this from? was it a forum or perhaps the BABTAC site? I have been on BABTAC site, but not seem this.

cheers

Toothsmith

Posts #57 and #58 here

http://www.salongeek.com/skin-geek/42779-smilequest-teeth-whitening-4.html

brook2jack

If your friend is a member she may want to contact babtac directly on their helpline as they offer legal advice. They and other beauty industry representatives attended GDC workshops and signed up to the understanding that regardless of the chemical used toothwhitening is illegal unless carried out by a dentist which is why they withdrew their insurance some years ago

quote
"
These conferences were also attended by
representatives of organisations working
very closely with the beauty industry, who
are helping to spread the Council’s
message on tooth whitening to their own
members and other therapists with whom
they have regular contact. This included
the Health and Beauty Industry
Association (HABIA), which advises the
industry on standards and health and
safety. They have now adopted and
published our position on tooth whitening.
The British Association of Beauty
Therapists and Cosmetologists (BABTAC)
spoke of around 80 civil cases involving
their members being sued for damages by
patients who had been adversely affected
by tooth whitening. One such case,
involving the permanent deterioration in a
patient’s asthma due to bleaching,
resulted in an award to the patient of
£16,000 damages for which the tooth
whitening company was held responsible.
The tooth whitening supplier subsequently
went into liquidation"

jasperconran

thank you brook2jack. I will investigate this further. I still dont think that my friend is doing anything wrong, everything has been progressing smoothly for her. we all have a difference of opinion.

I have spoken to 3 other people who trained with her at the same time, all agree cant see the problem etc. Incidentally, I have now got her to tell me who she trained with. She trained with a company called Fuss Beauty School, who, not long after she trained went bust and now go under the website www.iactw.org. I think you pointed that one out earlier didnt you??

When she first told me, I did think that Fuss sounded like a pants company to deal with:rotfl:Now, however, I am extremely worried and concerned. As although she deals with non peroxide gels, I dont like the sound of this company at all.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

brook2jack

Oh dear. Fuss were owned by a chap called Mr Knight who has various convictions for fraud including scams involving promising tv appearances. It has a very very bad reputation if you look it up as does he. http://www.salongeek.com/consumer-queries/127180-other-teeth-whitening-course-has-anyone-done.html

This contains a link to his convictions. I'm really sorry but this is not untypical as many of these training places con people take their money then close up , only to reopen under another name. People think they are perfectly legally trained to do teeth whitening and they aren't. Get her to get proper advice now, and as a free start ask her insurance to state in writing they will cover her for tooth whitening. When they won't at least she will have an inkling of what to do.

brook2jack

Has she read the terms and conditions on https://www.iactw.org? It basically says the info on the website is not guaranteed to be accurate, it is your responsibility to comply with laws and you have to indemnify them if anything goes wrong,etc etc etc.
There is a bogus association of which they are "founder member". Your instincts about this company seem exactly right.

jasperconran

thank you brook2jack.

May I ask you one more small favour? Basically, my friend told me the other day that she paid in with the course for public liability insurance. She has rung Fuss numerous times for a copy but has never received it.

The other girls have received a 'soft copy' turns out the so called insurance company is in Pakistan!!!! So one of the girls rang all the numbers on the policy, all numbers unrecognised, so she tried to email again all emails got returned.

So, my friend got her own insurance through a company called Sinclair Premium and the policy is a cosmetologist and hairdressers insurance which includes teeth whitening. she said if you go on their site and ask for a quote under this heading, it gives you a list of what they will cover.

I was wondering if you would be so kind as to have a look at what this company are offering under the cosmetologist and hairdressers insurance? and give me your honest opinion?

I am seriously worried now, I never did like the sound of Fuss as it was and now their so called insurance company doesnt exist! I know shes got her own insurance now, but I wanna know that at least Sinclair Premium are legit!

thank you

brook2jack

The problem is there are many companies particularly ones based abroad that offer insurance on enquiry to beauticians etc offering tooth whitening. However almost all will not confirm in writing that they will offer cover for whitening proceedures particularly when they involve someone putting their hands in someones mouth as that is illegal practice of dentistry.

Sinclair are a company based ,I believe ,in the US not the UK as the only way a company will even offer insurance is if it is based abroad. Most policies will have exclusions voiding cover if illegal practice takes place.

What particularly worries me is that their own website says whitening should only be done by a dental professional http://www.sinclairpremium.com/article-cosmetic-dentistry.asp

so I very much doubt they would pay out in the event of a claim ,which perhaps explains why their premium is £125 ish in the UK!!!If she wants to check this info ask her to get Sinclair to confirm in writing that she is covered for tooth whitening in the UK. I think she'll find she isn't as this is a multi country policy with specific exclusions for each country.

jasperconran

brook2jack wrote: »

The problem is there are many companies particularly ones based abroad that offer insurance on enquiry to beauticians etc offering tooth whitening. However almost all will not confirm in writing that they will offer cover for whitening proceedures particularly when they involve someone putting their hands in someones mouth as that is illegal practice of dentistry.

Sinclair are a company based ,I believe ,in the US not the UK as the only way a company will even offer insurance is if it is based abroad. Most policies will have exclusions voiding cover if illegal practice takes place.

What particularly worries me is that their own website says whitening should only be done by a dental professional http://www.sinclairpremium.com/article-cosmetic-dentistry.asp

so I very much doubt they would pay out in the event of a claim ,which perhaps explains why their premium is £125 ish in the UK!!!

Ahhh yes, that would make sense. She paid, if I remember correctly, about £111.00 ish for the year. Sinclair Premium have got brokers here in the uk (cos she rang them) but I think their head office is in the Ukraine, or Cyprus....could be both lol.

I think I may advise her to talk to BABTAC tommorow and voice her findings (well, mine actually!!) As I have heard that they can help, maybe get her money back? I hate to think of her being out of pocket if this goes belly up. I have just had it out with her on the phone and said look, be honest, the course, the stock, the printing, the website, insurance etc how much have you spent todate. to which she replied £2590.00:eek: I nearly fell over!

I would just like to say......this started off as (I felt) us being almost enemies brook2jack lol. but you have been, very polite and very helpful. not once have you displayed rude behaviour and you have never resorted to name calling. I thank you for your help, you have been the only one who has seen exactly where I was coming from and what I was trying to achieve.

I will keep you updated as to what I find out. I will not let my friend go down without a fight and I will not let her lose all her hard earned money!

brook2jack

I wish you both luck and hope this thread prevents anyone else getting into the same sort of dire straits both patients who are at risk and people taken in by unscrupulous businesses selling "training" on false premises.