Car scrappage petition

MoneySavingNovice

There is also a petition against this idea:-

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/No-to-Scrappage/

Quote:-
Owners of older cars can’t afford a new car, even with a bribe to scrap the car. The effect will be to temporarily distort the market – the slump will just happen later! Over 80% of the cars registered in the UK are made overseas, so the scheme will put UK tax-payers’ money into foreign factories. Even the Germans are complaining about imports from Romania! The environmental calculations do not add up – older cars tend to do fewer miles than shown in the calcs, so don’t affect the environment as much – plus the impact of the production of a new vehicle – but guess who provided the calculation? The car companies! It would be better to enforce motorists’ responsibility to maintain cars properly. That would positively impact road safety, the environment and keep thousands of technicians and support staff in employment; definitely a must in today’s economic climate.




I have added my name, as in my opinion the arguments expressed in the previous posts do not make any environmental or financial logic.

Hintza

Interesting thread and I suspect the arguments here will have been very well researched and debated by the government (but you never know nowadays ). I have my doubts about it especially in light of the proposed electric car scheme that they are also talking about. Although it sounds great when you get down to the nitty gritty it is just not viable and will result in increased CO2 output.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/5132437/The-madness-of-subsidising-inefficient-electric-cars.html

Lemonade_Pockets

I can't remember the exact figures but the new cars sold in germany on average will take 6-8 years to repay the enviromental debt compared to keeping the banger. Thus if the scheme stopped now come 6 years the total emissions will be less for the whole country. So whilst i don't disagree there is no immediate benefit to the climate, it is equally bonkers to think that our emissions will decrease if we don't update our fleet of cars i don't think anyone can argue that old cars are less polluting than new ones. Instead of waiting till the old cars die this is only serving as a catalyst.

With regards to money. HOW MANY TIMES.
It is too simplistic to say 80% of cars reg'd in the UK are produced elsewhere. Therfore 80% of the money will go straight out of the country.
How much money does the Goverment collect every time a car is sold? VAT, PAYE, CORPORATION TAX. This isn't just from the dealers, this from the logistics companies, parts suppliers and Mfr's, car mfr's the list goes on but i think you get the idea.
All those people that will save their jobs as a direct result of this, what do they go and spend their wages on?? Whatever (ok not everything bu most things) it the Goverment then collects VAT, PAYE, CORPORATION TAX as a direct result of these purchases.

So everyone is entiled to their own opinion but if you think that you will be simply handing £2k straight to another country you are very much mistaken.

Lemonade_Pockets

Hintza wrote: »

Interesting thread and I suspect the arguments here will have been very well researched and debated by the government (but you never know nowadays ). I have my doubts about it especially in light of the proposed electric car scheme that they are also talking about. Although it sounds great when you get down to the nitty gritty it is just not viable and will result in increased CO2 output.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/5132437/The-madness-of-subsidising-inefficient-electric-cars.html

Now I agree with you on that one. A stupid scheme by all accounts, especially since it will put the companies that we have in the UK producing electric cars straight out of business.

Shoshannah

I am not signing.

I am currently on the lookout for a car and want a car under £600. I wonder how many people are hanging on to their old cars waiting for this scheme to go through so they can scrap it? What chance do my £600 and I have against an offer of £2000? I could give a decent car a long-term and loving home, instead lots of perfectly usable old cars will be crushed.

New car, saving money? I disagree, I don't want to be stuck paying finance for years before I can own the car I drive every day. I don't want to pay hundreds of pounds for some dealer to replace the entire front end of the car should I chip the bumper. Even if I wanted to, once I'm given the £2000 I can't afford to stump up the remaining thousands for the new car.

Bangernomics for me I'm afraid.

As for it being better for the environment, I am doubtful. The extra carbon produced by manufacturing all these new cars will surely outweigh, or at least offset, the reduction made by scrapping the older cars. Not that I buy climate change anyway.

Just another way for people to be wasteful and throw away decent cars, whilst pretending they are being good by recycling their tomato soup cans.

loofer

The only loophole I can think of is that a person whose car is worth say £500 and wants to buy a newer one (a budget 2nd hand one)... scraps it, gets his/her £2k voucher.

Along comes some dude from the 'burbs looking to buy a new car anyway. Arranges to split the difference for the voucher.

So, assuming the voucher has the owner's name on it, they both go to the dealer and the 2nd guy uses the voucher in addition to any other discount he has negotiated. He gets an extra 1k off his car and the first guy get's an extra £500 for his car without having to go through process of advertising, viewings etc.

This assumes that the new car doesn't have to be registered in same name as individual who holds the voucher.

Keep an eye on Ebay I say...

CHR15

Isn't it fair to say that the only people who buy brand new cars, are already driving fairly new cars now??

If that is so, they won't qualify for the £2K scrappage because their current car is too new (and would be worth a lot more than £2K anyway !! )

This leaves the only people who qualify, are people who are driving bangers which are worth less than £2K.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that people who are driving bangers, are doing so because they cannot afford a brand new car (even if they did have £2K knocked off the price)???


I reckon there is going to be more scams and dodgy deals surrounding this scheme than genuine claimants.

Lemonade_Pockets

Yawn.

Assuming our government makes all the required caveats required to combat fraudulent abuse of this system none of the problems you mention should happen.

In Germany and Austria (Maybe Italy and France too but i couldn't be arsed to translate their policies too) You have to owned the car for 1year prior to scrapping to be eligible.

So there is not going to be any sudden flurry of trade resulting in all used cars over 9yrs being worth a minimum of £2k or whatever they decide to set the figure at. n.b. It is only €1k in france and is having the desired effect, the Germans have over cooked it slightly imo.

Now the fact that some old cars will be taken out of supply may have a small impact on the used car market sub £2k but it will be small and short lived, you will be no worse off than you were a year ago before the used car market became seriously depressed.

From personal experience i can say that lots of people changed (bangers) old cars in for new ones.

As for encouraging debt incase you haven't figured it out by now thats what makes the world go round. There is a difference between responsible lending and irresponsible lending. It is the blurring of these two things that everyone into this mess not debt itself. So assuming that everyone is now operating more stringent lending policies (i would suggest that everyone is now being tight about lending credit) it shouldn't be encouring people to overstretch themselves!!!!

anewman

uktyler wrote: »

This is only going to encourage debt.

It's a debt society unfortunately. Even our Government is in dire debt. Spend now, pay later.

CHR15

Lemonade_Pockets wrote: »

Yawn.
From personal experience i can say that lots of people changed (bangers) old cars in for new ones.

I don't know anyone who has gone from sub £2K banger to Brand New. Nearly new maybe, but not brand new.

I do though, know of dozens of posters on MSE who have done just that and are asking about VT,s and early termination policies because they cannot afford the cars any longer.

If lending were truly responsible, there will be very few people driving sub £2K cars who will be accepted for credit.
If lending is going to be responsible, the only people who will be accepted, are those driving fairly decent cars now.

I'm not trying to knock the scheme, but I can't see it as the revolution it is being publicised as (but we wouldn't know the results until all the new customers start defaulting on repayments in a couple of years time).