UK Stockmarket 2009 and beyond

turbobob

FTSE just set a new 1 year high

cloud_dog

STT, I know you are in to ETF's but do you use SelfTrade by any chance?

The reason for the questions was that when I purchased my Coal Mining ETF today (my first ever) I paid no dealing costs (£12.50) which I was expecting to. I thought ETFs were treated as stocks / I.T.'s?

sabretoothtigger

ETF is a fund which themselves will pay stamp duty. So you dont have to pay it twice, the cost is included in the management charge of the ETF. Its invisible I guess but if the market rises 100% they'll pass on 99.5% in the price change and keep the rest for costs (inc. duty) and the management fee.

Whats the symbol for coal then


I just realised my CRB fund was based in euros which I guess has some baring. It would have gone up more if it was in dollars?


I noticed no duty on a few other purchases also I think its because they are not exactly LSE stocks. CEY has no duty, dual listing maybe.
BNC has none because its an ADR which invests in San.mc in madrid I think

TNE5 is a foregin stock on dax. No british duty or foreign tax was payable on that but I do know that our government charges foreigners to buy stocks here so not sure how that works. UK receives 2bn annually from foreign traders in stamp duty

Also didnt pay any tax buying on nyse but you do have a spread on the currency exchange, looks to be about 0.8% which seems quite high to me


Looking at Neptune again and he has hedged against appreciation in the YEN? One of the worlds strongest currencys and he hedges against it, not sure I get that guy

cloud_dog

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

ETF is a fund which themselves will pay stamp duty. So you dont have to pay it twice, the cost is included in the management charge of the ETF. Its invisible I guess but if the market rises 100% they'll pass on 99.5% in the price change and keep the rest for costs (inc. duty) and the management fee.

STT, I understood the charging structure of ETFs, it is just that I was expecting to pay the standard SelfTrade dealing charge, was just surprised when I wasn't. It opens up a whole new range of optionsfor my daughters CTF as I was limiting this to amounts which made the £12.50 dealing charge relatively small.

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Whats the symbol for coal then

COAP, there is a US$ denominated version COAL

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

I noticed no duty on a few other purchases also I think its because they are not exactly LSE stocks. CEY has no duty, dual listing maybe.

CEY delisted from CREST a year(ish) ago and are now held a Depository Interest Shares which do not attract stamp duty. From my investments YAU and CZA also attract no stamp dut.

turbobob

Am I right in thinking Channel Island based companies (example BH Macro, ticker BHMG) don't have stamp duty applied? I bought into a Guernsey based trust a while back and as far as I remember it did not have any stamp duty.

sabretoothtigger

opps, I can type faster then I can read apparently. I dont have selftrade anymore but they offer some free dealing in exchange for the annual fee, maybe that was it


Unclassified stocks on this list seem to match the ones with no duty -

http://www.stockchallenge.co.uk/ftse.php

dougz_2

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

I dont have selftrade anymore but they offer some free dealing in exchange for the annual fee, maybe that was it

Thats only during July according to this http://www.selftrade.co.uk/services/price-list.php. They did used to have an offer that ETFs were free but I thought that ended long ago.

sabretoothtigger

I would sign up if they do deal etf for free especially if they cover american ones too

I'd be surprised if that was the case though. I know they basically represent the operations of Socgen who are massive so I guess its not impossible it could be free if somehow they linked it to their prop trading desk?
I think this is how iii offer free scheduled dealing

Could someone with an account send them a message to ask their fees for etf dealing?




Did a quick google and apparently its free etf dealing within an ISA or sipp? So maybe a child sipp would work in your case?

Then a mention on the actual site says £6 for regular trading or first 10 trades are free but only till april 2010 which could also be it

Another google and its mentioned that only the purchase is free, sales are charged normally. So theres a full range of maybes for you

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10903615&sort=whole

No dealing fee on Fund purchases
Plus many Funds have specially negotiated initial charges and lower management fees to save you even more.

I would guess they mean unit trusts not etf [IMG]http://!!!!!!!/shruggy[/IMG][IMG]http://!!!!!!!/shruggy[/IMG]

cloud_dog

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Could someone with an account send them a message to ask their fees for etf dealing?

I will ask.

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Did a quick google and apparently its free etf dealing within an ISA or sipp? So maybe a child sipp would work in your case?

Then a mention on the actual site says £6 for regular trading or first 10 trades are free but only till april 2010 which could also be it

Another google and its mentioned that only the purchase is free, sales are charged normally. So theres a full range of maybes for you

http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp?mid=10903615&sort=whole

I like it when a provider has a simple and clear charging structure, lets you know where you stand without having to second guess yourself everytime

sabretoothtigger

Came across this video speaking about moneyflow. Seems to me its just about confusing enough to be roughly true and I already know bonds and currencys are what really drives share value gains.

Its part of what preceded the 08 decline was movements here and the murky cds market which is apparently just a way of shorting bonds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiW2-hygtzU


Its counter intuitive in a way that in 1982 bond yields were incredibly high and also I think very unpopular as Ive heard Faber describe giving a lecture on gilts to a single attendee.

Anyway I doubt this guy is a very popular tipster because in the last 3 years since he made the video he has only been proved even more wrong as bond yields now have become almost negative apparently but all the same he is probably right on a intra decade timescale




I decided to go ahead with neptune japan because his portfolio history shows he does invest fully sometimes and apparently with decent timing also which is kinda important with a short or hedge strategy.

Also decided on artemis strategic assets for a reasonable choice right now, morningstar says is an aggressive balanced fund.
I prefer it to the idea of buying bonds and I think they match my idea of investing in growing prospects

Its a new fund so its very much in both cases caveat emptor!
http://www.artemisonline.co.uk/investor/products/artemis-strategic-assets






Also Iraqi elections this weekend, will this effect GKP or HOIL ?