Teachers demand 10% pay rise

baby_boomer

At least we can all agree on this from one delegate:

"We take no lessons in morality from government ministers, who fit out their homes with stone sinks from Habitat on their expenses, who pay their husbands more than a teacher earns to be their personal assistants and who don't appear to engage in even a hint of performance management of what they get up to.''

It's a pity he wasn't well informed enough to add -

and "whose state provided pension accrues at the incredible rate of 1/40"

alipops1986

Cleaver wrote: »

**Anecdotal story warning**

One of my best mates is a music teacher in a rough part of London. His work hours never seem to finish: he produces demos for the kids in groups, does the sound at gigs, helps students scour the inernet for cheap instruments to get them started, goes to record shops with the kids at weekends to try and get them inspired, puts on local events, does free private sound recording lessons for the 'MCs' and rappers who want that type of career and a whole host of other actvities. His working week is basically from when he gets up to when he goes to bed, six or seven days a week, but not that he'd ever complain about it as that's his passion in life. His school has the best few years of music results they have ever had (unsurprisingly) and a lot of his kids that have been involved in crime and gangs have turned to music instead. Off his own bat he has worked with a number of community groups (sports, arts, other music etc), obviously with no support from the school due to funding and just general 'can't be ar*sedness'. I genuinely believe he has 'saved' a number of kids. Because of my friend I imagine that a small bunch of kids are becoming a credit to society rather than a menance to the public. So how much is that worth? £30k a year? £50k a year? Or, actually, is it something that is very, very hard to put a price on? Someone with that type of passion, talent, drive and natural instinct to work with young people doesn't just achieve exam results. They improve societies, inspire kids who seem uninspirable, better neighbourhoods and, as cheesy as it sounds, change lives.

On the flip side there are teachers who are probably worthless. Doing more damage than good by teaching in an old-fashioned way, going through the motions, doing the minimum and generally turning kids off the sebjects. They probably achieve 'okay' results through their experience, but are they really inspiring in the way a good teacher should?

My friend, in the first example, never mentions money. I don't know how much he earns, but I know he struggles to get by. As a really general, philosophical questions, why does someone who contributes so much struggle to get by in life? Why, as a society, do we let that happen? This is a really difficult question to answer: I don't think we should just up teacher's pay because my mate is great at it. There are plenty who are awful at it. But what's the answer? How do you eek out the teachers like my mate from the teachers in my second example and reward them appropriately. It's not a simplistic:

"Exactly. They should have their pay frozen and be thankful that they aren't suffering like the majority that work in the private sector."

or

"Are they having a laugh? 10 percent? When everyone else is either getting laid off or wages frozen?"

These are a bit simplistic aren't they? Would you guys really not approve a teacher that had a continual track record or inspiring your kids to a financial incentive? I agree, a 10%, accross the board payrise isn't the answer. But relating teachers pay to the wider economy is as stupid as it is shortsighted, and the comments on here, such as "teachers earn enough already. It's an easy job. They get loads of holidays" are just pointlessly simplistic.

I've been on a bit of a rant here, haven't I? I guess it's just continually reading crude and rudimentary posts and threads that are the equivalent of amoebas floating in primordial soup. Are most of you lot honestly and truly this blunt and incapable of seeing grey in any subject in real life?

Thankyou!! :beer:
Appreciation where it's due and a little more of an indepth opinion!

I thought if my job as a teacher was as easy as most on here seem to think, everyone would be at it and there wouldn't be a shortage!!

lostinrates

alipops1986 wrote: »

Thankyou!! :beer:
Appreciation where it's due and a little more of an indepth opinion!

I thought if my job as a teacher was as easy as most on here seem to think, everyone would be at it and there wouldn't be a shortage!!

I think it might cut both ways though: A friend of mine did her PGCE before deciding to read law. Ironically for the area of law she's in she'd have earned as well as a teacher.

bo_drinker

ad9898 wrote: »

I knew this would stir up a hornet's nest, leaving all the arguments aside, teachers need to be grateful they have a job that is unlikely to disappear in the next 12 months, many people are living in fear of losing there's. Regardless of their pay or how hard they work, asking for a 10% pay rise at this time is crass in the extreme. The government is mugging the taxpayer enough.

Exactly, and something is not working as there seem to be a lot leaving school barely able to read and write so who isn't doing their job right as I am sure there weren't the same numbers when I left school

blakester

dylansmum wrote: »

If it is easy, then why not do it? Happy as a HE lecturer to explain my work load and let someone else have a bash for a month. Soo easy - any monkey could do it, really. Personally, money is not my main concern in HE - it is the culture and the poor conditions and the failure of successive governments to get to grips with the idea of education.

Of course, best solution is this: let us axe state education and everyone can pay less tax and educate their kids at private schools. Now then...calculator out...how much per year worse off would we all be?

I agree with your points above Dylansmum. I also believe the original post in this thread is probably typical of some members on here. Heaven forbib anyone in society who is a) a single parent b) a publc sector worker c) on benefits d) a guardian reader or any other group or individual who doesn't quite fit the guidelines by which everyone should lead their life by according to an ever increasing number of posters on here. As cleaver put so eloquently above, there are shades of grey, its just whether or not some can recognise it. rant over

an edit to ask a question.. when exactly should a particular union negotiate a pay deal? Does anyone know when the recession will be over?

zedyy

10%? That's outrageous - They should be lucky they have a job. This isn't good especially compounded by the fiasco they are causing about exams by slacking off and demanding the scrapping of key performance indicators such as SATS.

alipops1986

zedyy wrote: »

10%? That's outrageous - They should be lucky they have a job. This isn't good especially compounded by the fiasco they are causing about exams by slacking off and demanding the scrapping of key performance indicators such as SATS.

There is plenty more useful data, such as value added, provided by schools which are more beneficial to parents/carers about the progress schools can make to students learning.

SATS never provided reliable data anyway because schools were so concerned by the need to perform well, teachers were encouraged to coach and teach the exam.

Cleaver

zedyy wrote: »

10%? That's outrageous - They should be lucky they have a job. This isn't good especially compounded by the fiasco they are causing about exams by slacking off and demanding the scrapping of key performance indicators such as SATS.

Yes, god forbid that the people who educate our children actually question the way we assess educational performance. I agree with you and wish these pesky teachers would leave it up to Government bodies and the Educational Select Committee to decide what's best for children. If there's one thing I'm sure of, it's the fact that people who never set foot in a classroom know what's best for children. Yes siree.

<more sarcasm etc. etc.>

zedyy

I went through the SATS system and I found it very beneficial. They'll always be Teachers who will "coach" students to pass tests but its no different that a student learning something parrot fashion. Also, I remember when we had OFSTED inspections how teachers would stage-manage lessons the week before and spruce the place up so Its not just students that try to wangle it when it comes to assessments.

If they do scrap the SATS systems I think OFSTED inspections should double.

jamespmg44

alipops1986 wrote: »

Thankyou!! :beer:
Appreciation where it's due and a little more of an indepth opinion!

I thought if my job as a teacher was as easy as most on here seem to think, everyone would be at it and there wouldn't be a shortage!!

Both my parents are teachers so I have a fair idea of the dedication that some teachers put in, but they see it as a vocation and get an enormous amount of job satisfaction.

The point still stands that no profession deserves a 10% pay rise across the board.