Teachers demand 10% pay rise

Rummer

I think you should take a walk in other peoples shoes before you make a judgement on what they do or do not deserve to be paid.

dylansmum

The NUT will have to ballot members - that is how a Union works, of course; so it isn't sure fire. But the NUT are asking for 10% OVER FIVE YEARS to restore wages - for 2004- onwards pay decreased. This is not to say that members will want to vote for this - they may well see it, as one delegate did, as having an impact on the poorest in the world that is not palatable.

Now I am sure some will say hey well in the private sector we don't get rises. But pay rises across the private sector went up 4% in the same period that teachers' pay decreased 5% in real terms (those in the private sector not getting 4% are being squeezed for profit making and those doing 'free labour' same thing - that is the market).

Unions are their to protect their members. My Union won its pay claim in 2005 - 8% over three years or inflation, whichever is the greatest. We negotiated.. My starting salary in HE as a lecturer in 2000 (after 8 years training ) was 17.5K. Wow, eh? Working in education is sooo easy and well paid!

Deep_In_Debt

What about the numerous "inset" days that my local schools seem to have? Kids round here seem to have "ad hoc" days off frequently for "teacher training".

My mother was a teacher all her working life (secondary schools and colleges) and whilst it was many years ago, and damned hard work...yes, she did seem to be working all the time... teachers were rewarded on performance and results.

By the way, it's horrible having a parent as a teacher! Constantly had my spelling and grammar criticised...and couldn't skive lessons or school!

jamespmg44

alipops1986 wrote: »

I think Lindsey and myself are possibly fighting our cause because we have just come through the teacher training route and have been put right through the mill!

I have got EIGHT folders of paperwork that the government require for me to pass, i'm doing more lessons than alot of teachers, i am helping to put together residential weekends for students (which i get no extra dollar for taking on the reponsibility and accompanying the students, because there isn't an endless pot for most schools!), i am assessed continuously through - lessons, paperwork, essays and tutorial reports.

I am 120% enthausiastic and enjoy the job. However, I have worked in a special school for teenagers who have behavioural and emotional difficulties - are extremely violent in some cases needing physical restraint. Those members of staff get upto 8k more than mainstream teachers, because of the conditions they are in.
Yet, in mainstream schools and particularly mine we have students who have those issues but cannot get into special school. The difference being I cater for those students along with the 29 others as best as i can, but i get no premium at all!

Yes, it's swings and roundabouts. However, there are some measures than could be taken to recoup money from these special educational areas to put back into the mainstream system, where there is a true mixture of needs and requirements. Thus, teachers should be paid accordingly.

Training in a lot of professions is hard work for everybody - a union asking for 10% just smacks of greed and barefaced cheek.

Teachers are very well paid, they have a guaranteed final salary pension scheme, long holidays and have much more job security than most.

Besides - whatever happened to teaching being a vocation...

baby_boomer

IMHO this is a financially illiterate union asking for a poor deal for its members in an era where government will have created inflation but have few weapons to control it.

If I was an NUT member I'd give them a rocket.

bo_drinker

Always thought that in some subjects teaching has got to be an easy job churning out the same old stuff year after year to a different bunch of kids, lots of holidays etc. They need to see what is happening in the real world before they start whingeing for more money.

Cleaver

**Anecdotal story warning**

One of my best mates is a music teacher in a rough part of London. His work hours never seem to finish: he produces demos for the kids in groups, does the sound at gigs, helps students scour the inernet for cheap instruments to get them started, goes to record shops with the kids at weekends to try and get them inspired, puts on local events, does free private sound recording lessons for the 'MCs' and rappers who want that type of career and a whole host of other actvities. His working week is basically from when he gets up to when he goes to bed, six or seven days a week, but not that he'd ever complain about it as that's his passion in life. His school has the best few years of music results they have ever had (unsurprisingly) and a lot of his kids that have been involved in crime and gangs have turned to music instead. Off his own bat he has worked with a number of community groups (sports, arts, other music etc), obviously with no support from the school due to funding and just general 'can't be ar*sedness'. I genuinely believe he has 'saved' a number of kids. Because of my friend I imagine that a small bunch of kids are becoming a credit to society rather than a menance to the public. So how much is that worth? £30k a year? £50k a year? Or, actually, is it something that is very, very hard to put a price on? Someone with that type of passion, talent, drive and natural instinct to work with young people doesn't just achieve exam results. They improve societies, inspire kids who seem uninspirable, better neighbourhoods and, as cheesy as it sounds, change lives.

On the flip side there are teachers who are probably worthless. Doing more damage than good by teaching in an old-fashioned way, going through the motions, doing the minimum and generally turning kids off the sebjects. They probably achieve 'okay' results through their experience, but are they really inspiring in the way a good teacher should?

My friend, in the first example, never mentions money. I don't know how much he earns, but I know he struggles to get by. As a really general, philosophical questions, why does someone who contributes so much struggle to get by in life? Why, as a society, do we let that happen? This is a really difficult question to answer: I don't think we should just up teacher's pay because my mate is great at it. There are plenty who are awful at it. But what's the answer? How do you eek out the teachers like my mate from the teachers in my second example and reward them appropriately. It's not a simplistic:

"Exactly. They should have their pay frozen and be thankful that they aren't suffering like the majority that work in the private sector."

or

"Are they having a laugh? 10 percent? When everyone else is either getting laid off or wages frozen?"

These are a bit simplistic aren't they? Would you guys really not approve a teacher that had a continual track record or inspiring your kids to a financial incentive? I agree, a 10%, accross the board payrise isn't the answer. But relating teachers pay to the wider economy is as stupid as it is shortsighted, and the comments on here, such as "teachers earn enough already. It's an easy job. They get loads of holidays" are just pointlessly simplistic.

I've been on a bit of a rant here, haven't I? I guess it's just continually reading crude and rudimentary posts and threads that are the equivalent of amoebas floating in primordial soup. Are most of you lot honestly and truly this blunt and incapable of seeing grey in any subject in real life?

dylansmum

If it is easy, then why not do it? Happy as a HE lecturer to explain my work load and let someone else have a bash for a month. Soo easy - any monkey could do it, really. Personally, money is not my main concern in HE - it is the culture and the poor conditions and the failure of successive governments to get to grips with the idea of education.

Of course, best solution is this: let us axe state education and everyone can pay less tax and educate their kids at private schools. Now then...calculator out...how much per year worse off would we all be?

ad9898_3

I knew this would stir up a hornet's nest, leaving all the arguments aside, teachers need to be grateful they have a job that is unlikely to disappear in the next 12 months, many people are living in fear of losing there's. Regardless of their pay or how hard they work, asking for a 10% pay rise at this time is crass in the extreme. The government is mugging the taxpayer enough.

dylansmum

ad9898 wrote: »

I knew this would stir up a hornet's nest, leaving all the arguments aside, teachers need to be grateful they have a job that is unlikely to disappear in the next 12 months, many people are living in fear of losing there's. Regardless of their pay or how hard they work, asking for a 10% pay rise at this time is crass in the extreme. The government is mugging the taxpayer enough.

I don't think the ballot will win. But 10% over five years..not 10%!