How can we persuade employers NOT to use imigrant workers?

Jonbvn

neas wrote: »

i;ve got a masters engineering degree... and let me tell you it certainly wasn't 'given' out... of the 100 who started the course 40 passed with a 2:1 at the end of it... the rest dropped or were forced out.

Anf i'll correct you again. In terms of engineering and scientific degrees, people are screaming for graduates... the core of the problem has been and still is, is that for tthe last ten years the following has been true for science and engineering jobs:

1. It paid less than a banker.... and prob less than an estate agent during the HPI inflation period...
2. It was rock hard and when combirned with number 1 meant not many people would bother doing it (so numbers dropped for A-Level and Degree studies)
3. Degrees in general were diluted such that you could do media studies, media studies and golf management, golf management and tourism, golf management and psychology... the list goes on.

While jobs generated from those types of degrees (num3) do exist there arent enough of them so essentially we are training our youth and future workers with worthless information than is required.... and for the jobs that are needed we aint getting enough good quality graduate educated individuals.

Engineering graduates are still being recruited now... and are head hunted. While the salary of a banker and other high paid indivduals drop... the salary of the engineer is rising slowly.. but mainting its level at least.

As for the maths comment, it is standard practice on most courses to spend 10% of the first year (not the entire year man!) reteachig/going over previous knowledge as not all entrants will enter at the same level. This will bring everyone up to speed for the course and typically is taught in first 3 months of a degree. I was one who already did further maths so it was a little borrowing but I dont think it was time wasted in the grand scheme.

Sorry for having a rant, but i believe you are having an ill infromed 'rant' as well. the problems are that the economy rewarded not engineers, not scientists who are the bricks and mortar of new innovation... but bankers and estate agents who got us into this recession in the first place ;P.

Do agree that not everyone can be a rocket scientist or nucear scientist and that should be represented in their pay packet... which at the moment it is not.

Spot on!

As a well qualified (and experienced) civil/structural engineer, I am still receiving job offers on a regular basis.

Jonbvn C.Eng, M.Eng, M.I.Struct.E, M.I.C.E

MrFonzerelli

lostinrates wrote: »

TBH, I don't know. AND I also am sure there are a majority of kids at college picking up this thirty quid who are genuinely hard working, good, kids

The best wy I can describe the ttitude I'm talking about is an anecdotal (sorry).

It was at London court, a ''bread and butter'' young male client. Young female barrister whose sum total work for the week was four hearings...at £46.50 each, -she was having a lean work time, though, thats fair to point out. I was doing five full days for the same firm (£50 a day). Client was saying there was no reason for him to get a job, he'd never get paid like we did, and then we starting filling in his forms with him. He was taking home a lot more than us if you include accomodation etc...although presumably we might have been entitled to some sort of tax credit or something. We..the barrister and I, found this depressingly funny..and got the giggles.

The difference was not financial difference, it was, as you say, poverty of ambition and long term thinging. That, paying people to read a subject for a couple of years, won't cure. Its far younger, IMO, we need to inspire pople, and MAINTAIN that. Its hard to persuade people to ework for average wage at 16/18/21 when as children they dreamed of not having knowledge but earning millions for looking 'good' or playing football. ETA: i think the thirty quid a week for college was seen as we might see the fiorst rung on the career ladder. Very, sadly.

Its hard because I also think academic kids should not be priced out of education.

I grew up in a poor east London borough. My Nan having came to the UK having left Italy following World War 2.

During my schooling I came across many bright children, over time, many they lost their way. Many at the A-level stage. With parental encouragement and limited financial backing I went on to University, I was very successful at my chosen degree and now live in one of the wealthier areas of the country (social mobility at work).

When I visit where I grew up, conditions have deteriorated, I know it's not PC to say so, but I can understand why ordinary folk (i include the migrants here) vote BNP, it's the environment they live in, it not being safe to walk out of your front door. Hard to describe unless you've lived there.

Well anyway, when I visit the area, on occasion I bump into some of the brighter children I used to know, they are not doing so well, and I can't help but think that it is in part due to them falling out of the educational system.

In contrast, there are many public schoolchildren in the private sector in which I work. I on occasion question how some of them managed to get as far as they did.

Not sure where I'm going with this tbh. I guess my views are probably governed by my own experiences.

ultra10

The Utter lunacy of Marxist Labours Open door Migration Policy, summed up by two Figures ..

http://www.lga.gov.uk/lga/core/page.do?pageId=566381

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7931289.stm

tomterm8

Why would we want to persuade employers NOT to use imigrant workers?

maveli

Could you add one more option to vote
By hardworking like majority of immigrants

stephen163

There is also a strong argument that migrant workers HELP a country during a recession. They make the economy more robust. During a boom, they can be used to fill short term positions and when a recession hits, it's easier to get rid of them than a native worker. Since most have limited access to benefits, they should go home when the job opportunities dry up.

Almost all rich, developed countries in the free world see legal migrant workers as a good thing.

I know immigration is a complicated issue, but this is positive side of them.

piggeh

stephen163 wrote: »

We need to encourage more people to do Maths and Science A levels - somehow!

I dont know if it's still the same, but when I got to A-Levels a science A-Level wasn't open to me, as I only had an AA in double science, rather than a half decent grade (Bs) in triple science. Which IMO sucked and still does if the system is the same.

tomterm8

When i was chosing A-Levels, the maths tutor refused to let me onto the Math A-level course. a few years latter, I was getting a 1st class honours in software engineering. It sucks that because of one person, I couldn't do the degree in normal engineering that I really wanted to do.

stephen163

piggeh wrote: »

I dont know if it's still the same, but when I got to A-Levels a science A-Level wasn't open to me, as I only had an AA in double science, rather than a half decent grade (Bs) in triple science. Which IMO sucked and still does if the system is the same.

I think most schools say you should have at least a C grade in science GCSE to go on to do A level. Probably makes no difference if you have double award or triple award. Maybe it depends on the school.

Masomnia

I think it does depend on the school, I did dual award science and still did two science A levels. Struggled mind, especially with chemistry.