I Am Going To Sue ORANGE!

boozercruiser

wannabe_sybil wrote: »

That's the thing - someone starts off with a reasonable complaint, which it seems that the OP has, then they get all hyped up, then it goes against them, then they appeal taking it out of the Small Claims and into big fee territory, then they appeal again, and again, and Orange have got someone expensive on retainer so they may as well use them...

Sometimes a minimalist approach to a complaint is more useful. I have seen people lose their houses when things have got out of hand, after they had lost appeal after appeal an order for costs was made, then a charging order put on their house, then an order for sale... And then the person in question sued over the disruption to some items when the bailiffs went in, changed the locks and took possession!

OP - I hope you get satisfaction, quite genuinely, but do be careful about this. Be prepared to back up absolutely everything, and fix in your mind at what point you would walk away before it cost more than it was worth. Good luck.

Also, make sure you have the legal stuff nailed. Because the boss of the clerk that is dealing with your matter will check it all up and will know a zillion ways round anything slightly shaky.

Think of Bob Paisley rather than Graeme Souness.

Thanks for this input. I can quite safely say that if I lose at the Small Claims Court then I will as you say "Walk Away".

Look, if I win I stand to gain UP TO £450 and if I lose then the figure is £85.
I won't jump with joy if I win that amount or cry if I lose and my nature is that I am not 'hyped up' in any event. I learned a long time to take things in my stride.:D
Orange have not put to the Court that they are Counterclaiming against me, because in effect they know that it is THEM that is in the wrong.

Don't forget that they telephoned me to apologise after I told them that I would take them to Court and was claiming £450. The Orange employee offered me £50 and it could go into my Bank Account that day. I replied that I would accept £225 without predudice to my claim, but the lady I spoke to said that she was not authorised to offer that much.

So Small Claims Court it is then.:D

boozercruiser

taxiphil wrote: »

Orange can't just have a judgment set aside merely by asking for it. They have to go before a judge and convince him that the court papers were never received by them (i.e. they got lost in the post) and hence they were never even made aware of the claim. It's not enough for them to say "we're too inept / bureaucratic to have defended the case first time around because it got lost within our organisation".

Convincing a judge that Royal Mail failed to deliver all the various court documents is no easy matter and judges are not daft.[/QUOTEfrom ]

Yes, after all I have received and 'Acknowledgment of Service' from the Court advising me that (Orange) I intend to defend all of this claim

Orange now have 28 days from the date of service, which was deemed to be
27th April 2009 to file a defence, which I eagerly wait to see exactly what that is.:D

boozercruiser

Freddie_Snowbits wrote: »

Sorry, I'd love to vote on this thread, but prat is not an option.

"Look I really wanted to help, but you were scared of realising my advice was averse to yours, you did not like what I said, so you asked many more. They still gave your short thrift and in the end, you only wanted someone to agree with you. In that way, I could not agree more. Tesco spend this quarter £20.20p. No chance of coupon again in February"

I really respect and take notice of the obviously constructive mind boggling thoughts put forward by an obviously highly intelectual person:rolleyes:

:wave:

Tozer

taxiphil wrote: »

Orange can't just have a judgment set aside merely by asking for it. They have to go before a judge and convince him that the court papers were never received by them (i.e. they got lost in the post) and hence they were never even made aware of the claim. It's not enough for them to say "we're too inept / bureaucratic to have defended the case first time around because it got lost within our organisation".

Convincing a judge that Royal Mail failed to deliver all the various court documents is no easy matter and judges are not daft.

Sadly it is much easier than that. Courts generally set aside - sometimes months later after a default judgment - if there is an "arguable case". The view is that Defendants should not be denied justice.

In my experience, it is a 70-30 chance of judgment being set aside. In this case, judgment WOULD be set aside.

Tozer

boozercruiser wrote: »

taxiphil wrote: »

Orange can't just have a judgment set aside merely by asking for it. They have to go before a judge and convince him that the court papers were never received by them (i.e. they got lost in the post) and hence they were never even made aware of the claim. It's not enough for them to say "we're too inept / bureaucratic to have defended the case first time around because it got lost within our organisation".

Convincing a judge that Royal Mail failed to deliver all the various court documents is no easy matter and judges are not daft.[/QUOTEfrom ]

Yes, after all I have received and 'Acknowledgment of Service' from the Court advising me that (Orange) I intend to defend all of this claim

Orange now have 28 days from the date of service, which was deemed to be
27th April 2009 to file a defence, which I eagerly wait to see exactly what that is.:D

if I were acting for them, I would say that there is no case to answer....

Crazy_Jamie

taxiphil wrote: »

Orange can't just have a judgment set aside merely by asking for it. They have to go before a judge and convince him that the court papers were never received by them (i.e. they got lost in the post) and hence they were never even made aware of the claim. It's not enough for them to say "we're too inept / bureaucratic to have defended the case first time around because it got lost within our organisation".

Convincing a judge that Royal Mail failed to deliver all the various court documents is no easy matter and judges are not daft.

You are entirely wrong there. That's not in any way the test to get judgment in default set aside. The court will set aside judgment in default they decide that (to give the exact legal wording) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim. Rule 13.3(1)(a) if you're interested enough to look it up. The court will also have regard to whether the application to set aside was brought promptly, but Orange will not have to show at all that they didn't receive the papers or anything of that nature.

On a side (yet relevant) note, if it did come down to this I'm fairly sure that Orange would have no problem getting judgment in default set aside. Though I don't think for one minute that it will come to that. They have already acknowledged service. It would make no sense to just ignore the claim from this point on.

boozercruiser wrote:

Orange have not put to the Court that they are Counterclaiming against me, because in effect they know that it is THEM that is in the wrong.

Orange have not put in a counterclaim because getting their solicitors (or in house legal team if they have one) to prepare a legal case for such a counterclaim would cost them more than the counterclaim is worth. It is therefore not in the interest of economics to put in a counterclaim. Unlike yourself Orange will not fight anything on principle. It will all be about the money. And it would cost them more money in legal fees to run that counterclaim than they would ever gain by succeeding in it. That's why they haven't counterclaimed.

Tozer wrote:

if I were acting for them, I would say that there is no case to answer....

I have no idea what the Particulars of Claim say, but once the formalities of admitting those things that are factually correct (or just having no knowledge and putting to proof) are done and dusted, that would certainly be the approach I would take.

taxiphil

Crazy_Jamie wrote: »

You are entirely wrong there. That's not in any way the test to get judgment in default set aside. The court will set aside judgment in default they decide that (to give the exact legal wording) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim. Rule 13.3(1)(a) if you're interested enough to look it up.

13.3 actually says the court may set aside, not will set aside a judgment if the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim. So it's still a highly discretionary thing which takes a range of factors into account.

The defendant still has to explain the first and most obvious question the judge will always ask: exactly why did they fail to enter a defence or show up in court the first time around? – and this where they would probably come unstuck unless they're prepared to lie to a court.

I was just trying to rebut the idea that having a judgment set aside is a simple rubber stamping exercise; it's not. And don't forget that a hearing has to take place, to which the claimant is also invited and can raise their concerns if they think the defendant is "trying it on".

boozercruiser

My Claim.......................................

In 2007 I received letters from Orange
demanding £22.99 which I disputed in letters
to them.I registered an official complaint
with OFCOM and requested a deadlock letter to
enable me to take the issue to CISAS. This
was ignored. I advised Orange in a letter
dated 12th March2007 that I was charging them
for my time, expence and distress that Orange
where causing me. I received a letter from
Orange Customer Care dated 4th July 2007
which said, "Again please accept sincere
apologies for any inconvenience this may have
caused you.I've removed your outstanding
balance (£22.99p) as promised. So no further
monies are now owing and you won't receive
any further corrospondence from us." Then, I
received a letter dated 4th March 2009 from a
Debt Agengy demanding £22.99p or legal action
was possible. I was also subjected to various
distressing telephone calls and I wrote to
Orange complaining and requested £450 for my
time,expence and anxiety caused. Orange
telephoned me apologized and offered me
£50 compensation which I refused.

(Please keep in mind that the above claim was made Online so I had to keep the claim to 24 lines and around 7 words a line. All my corrospondance, to and from Orange including E. Mails to the Debt Collecting agency etc. etc. etc. would be produced in Court if it comes to that.).

facetheglue

Is this what all retired people do?

If it is I want to work till I die.

taxiphil

facetheglue wrote: »

Is this what all retired people do?

If it is I want to work till I die.

So can I ask you why you signed up to a Consumer Revenge website?