Is paid Debt Management REALLY so bad?

boo80

Just wanted to say hi, welcome to the forum. I woke up to my horrible situation last week and everyone on here has been ever so helpful to me. I'm self-employed too and wanted to let you know that there is some really useful info at bdl.org.uk (think thats the right address, Business Debtline) they have a program on there that helps you work out your business and personal incomings and outgoings, then gives you a realisic amout you can afford to repay each month. I spent a couple of hours last week on the phone to BDL, NDL and CCCS, writing letters and speaking to creditors, within a few days everything seems better and I'm pretty sure I can cope with it all now. PLEASE don't pay someone to do this for you, if you can't wait for the charities, have a go yourself, it really isn't that time consuming once you get started.

Former_MSE_Andrea

Hi everyone

We fully understand people are protective of the site and others on here but at the same time could you try to give new users the benefit of the doubt before making accusations?

If you find a new user does come along and post a link to a paid company then please do report the post as normal and we'll take another look.

Have a good weekend!

Andrea

Back to the discussion...

Mrs_Ryan

I've gone with a fee-paying DMP because the free ones didnt want to know. Theoretically, I can afford to pay the minimum payments on all my debts, but in practice it doesnt always work that way for me as my income fluctuates so wildly every month and I've run into real trouble.
They certainly havent tried to exploit me as I made it quite clear I used to deal solely with DMP's from 3rd party debt management companies when I worked at Capital One, so I know the process exactly and I wont stand for any rubbish from them. I dont have the time to do it myself either (or I would, I have a lot of insider knowledge that would probably make it quite easy) but its not an option. My debt is fairly small (just under 4k) and my disposable income every month - provided I get a certain amount of money - is ok, so thats why the likes of cccs didnt want to know.

Miss_Marple_2

The reasons I would recommend a non-fee paying DMP company ( in my case Payplan) are:

i) The fees can add years on to your debt free date. For non-fee paying, all your payments go to your creditors.
ii) Creditors are more likely to accept recommendations from the non-fee paying companies and they have a lot more respect amongst creditors
iii) Non-fee paying companies are much more impartial than fee-paying and are more likely to recommend what is best for you because non-fee paying companies have nothing to gain from you - fee-paying companies need to make a profit from you and have targets to meet, and so can be known to recommend what gives them the most fees rather than the best option for you

Payplan had my DMP set up within a month of me contacting them - some creditors take a while to agree it - but this is the same for both fee-paying & non-fee paying companies.

As for them not having the time to speak to you, this certainly is not the case for me. I have my personal advisor who responds to e-mails within a day, sometimes the same day.

Also - as for being a lot of forms to fill in, the same will be true of all companies, none of them can help you unless they know all your information.

I really would recommend putting an SOA up - there are some really helpful & insightful guys on here that can give you some great advice.

I agree that sometimes cheapest is not always best ( baked beans for example), but with DMP management, you can get a better service and pay absolutely nothing - that seems the best deal to me

rog2

MSE_Andrea wrote: »

We fully understand people are protective of the site and others on here but at the same time could you try to give new users the benefit of the doubt before making accusations?

I take on board what you are saying, Andrea, but it also has to work both ways.

It is, in my opinion, understandable that many, including many of the more experienced, posters saw the opening post of this thread as little more than direct criticism of the Debt Counselling Charities, given its general tone.

I certainly tried to be constructive in my initial reply and, yes, I did, and still do, criticise the ethics of fee charging companies. We read, far too often of posters who turn to this forum for advice simply because they have been wrongly advised by those same fee charging companies.

Many of these 'companies' try to attract their customers by using websites with very similar sounding addresses as the charities, and many people have found themselves contracted into debt solution plans - whether they be DMP, IVA or whatever, before realising that they are, in fact, dealing with a private company, rather than one of the charities which we, and this site, reccomends (admittedly sometimes a bit relentlessly).

Another 'tactic', that has been employed by these companies, is to 'plant' one of their members on to forums like this. We had, in the infancy of the 'Bankruptcy and Living With It' Sub-forum days, a particularily nasty example of one poster who 'made friends' with all of us by seeking support and advice over his/her impending bankruptcy. We willingly gave that support and advice only to find out, at the end of the day, that that particular poster (fortunately no longer allowed to post) was an employee of one of the largest Insolvency Practices in the UK.

In this current case, given that I, and others, saw the Op's opening post as potentially divisive and that there was an 'aggressive' tone towards the replies, I did look at the OP's profile. To me, it seemed too much of a coincidence that somebody with a username that was so similar to the name of the 'Company' in the link would genuinely be turning to a forum like this for advice on his personal debt prolems.

In my replies, I have genuinely tried not to be judgemental. Nor have I tried to 'play God' intentionally or otherwise.

Let's be totally honest - the overwhelming majority of DFW posters come to this board because they have problems and do not realise that there are organisations that they can turn to for genuine, impartial and free advice. That was certainly true when I first registered and, had it not been for the advice that I received from the DFW 'fraternity' I would not have known where to seek that advice.

In my case, I did NOT qualify for an IVA as I had no regular income and was declared bankrupt by my largest creditor (HMRC). Bankruptcy was no 'easy ride' and, had it not been for the advice and support that I received from both this forum and the Debt Counselling Charities (in my case CAB and Business Debtline) I really do not know if I would have gotten through the process intact.

It was, coincidentally, only after I had been declared bankrupt that the 'IVA Factories' started to contact me, in their droves, with proposals of using an IVA to 'write off my Bankruptcy'.

As a result of the aforementioned support from this site, I really felt that I could not just 'cut and run' once my own debt problems had been addressed. I felt that it was, and still is, my moral duty to share my experiences, and any 'knowledge' that I might, or might not, have picked up along the way with other people who found themselves faced with similar problems. I do not even look on myself as a 'senior' member of this forum - I do not know all of the answers and am learning all of the time.

What I do, however, know is that the advice given by the Debt Counselling Charities is given freely and with no consideration to 'profit'. My own experience has taught me that the same can not be said for the majority of the fee charging companies, so if my condemnation of the burgeoning culture of these 'profit driven' businesses is evident in any advice, or reply that I have given in this, or any, thread, then I apologise.

WhyisFreeBetter

rog2 wrote: »

I take on board what you are saying, Andrea, but it also has to work both ways.

...........

This should probably be the last I say about this. Sorry for not quoting the whole post, but it was long and didn't want to take up too much space.

All I want to say is, I would agree with most of what you have said about this, other than my replies being in any way 'aggressive' (?? - please have another look). I think there is one aspect, an important one, that has been missed. That is, that after 1 accusation, I wrote a fairly comprehensive denial. And it was completely ignored, even laughed at to some extent. This would not be acceptable in 'real-life', so why here?

In fact, this would not be acceptable on any forum. I've been a forum moderator (and minor administrator) for a fairly busy motorsports forum. We would not have allowed what happened here.

The fact that it was in a place like this makes it all the worse. So let me ask those involved this: what if I had been someone who was extremely stressed, in a bad way, in need of help due to serious debt? How might that kind of reaction possibly have affected me? Even to be told later by a member with a lot of posts, when trying to make my case, to leave the forum.

Thank goodness I was not. The three main posters involved in that 'attack' (or whatever you choose to call it), should be ashamed of themselves, and should re-look at whether being around a place like this is the right place for them. I can't imagine what goes through some peoples minds, that would make them be so not-nice, and / or un-justly. Had I turned out to be a spammer, it would have been easy to refer to the initial accusation. Instead, that particular member, after my denial, could only offer the follow-up post "jog on spammer", and then later "so leave the forum".

As I mentioned before, self-policing a forum is fine. But in a forum like this it needs to be done with care and with respect. If a member can not do that, then they should not get do it at all. No matter how many posts or 'thank yous' they might have.

WhyisFreeBetter

Mrs_Ryan wrote: »

I've gone with a fee-paying DMP because the free ones didnt want to know. Theoretically, I can afford to pay the minimum payments on all my debts, but in practice it doesnt always work that way for me as my income fluctuates so wildly every month and I've run into real trouble.
They certainly havent tried to exploit me as I made it quite clear I used to deal solely with DMP's from 3rd party debt management companies when I worked at Capital One, so I know the process exactly and I wont stand for any rubbish from them. I dont have the time to do it myself either (or I would, I have a lot of insider knowledge that would probably make it quite easy) but its not an option. My debt is fairly small (just under 4k) and my disposable income every month - provided I get a certain amount of money - is ok, so thats why the likes of cccs didnt want to know.

For the sake of not starting any accusations again of me being a spammer, would you mind sending me a pm with the name of the company? Probably I'm going to do this with Payplan, but I'm also open to options. Sounds like we are in a similar position. However, my debt is significantly higher than yours (£18,000) and partly the result of a failed business (which means I can't get help from the CCCS or the NDL). I am desperately trying to get a new business to work while doing part-time work, but it needs so much time at the moment just to earn enough to pay bills and eat. I'm not complaining as it's my choice, but I would be interested in checking out whoever it is you are using.

Thanks in advance!

pepe2008

This is a relevant topic which can bring out the best/worst in people. However, its been slipping into the sort of pointless mud-slinging that we see on the House Prices etc Threads.
Can we draw a line and stop the name calling now?


My particular bug-bear is that CCCS will not stop paying a DCA who cannot produce a correct CCA......why?

Ilovejackbauer

Mrs_Ryan wrote: »

I've gone with a fee-paying DMP because the free ones didnt want to know. Theoretically, I can afford to pay the minimum payments on all my debts, but in practice it doesnt always work that way for me as my income fluctuates so wildly every month and I've run into real trouble.
They certainly havent tried to exploit me as I made it quite clear I used to deal solely with DMP's from 3rd party debt management companies when I worked at Capital One, so I know the process exactly and I wont stand for any rubbish from them. I dont have the time to do it myself either (or I would, I have a lot of insider knowledge that would probably make it quite easy) but its not an option. My debt is fairly small (just under 4k) and my disposable income every month - provided I get a certain amount of money - is ok, so thats why the likes of cccs didnt want to know.

For the life of me I cannot understand why on earth you are paying a company when you have worked with them and know how they calculate the figures. DMC cannot get anything that you cannot get yourself the only difference is that an arrangement with a dmc will be agreed over 12 months whereas diy you would probably get a six month arrg.

Its quite simple, you record all your incomings and outgoing, whats left (hopefully there is some left) is your disposable income. You work out exactly how much debt you have in percentage terms, you then offer that percentage to your creditor ie if you have one credit card debt £2k and one loan of £2k they would each get an offer to pay of 50% of your disposable income. Thats it in a nutshell. Now if your otp is £10 a month on a debt of £10k then it will just get thrown out. We would look at a max clearance time of 7 years if you own and upto 10 years if you rent. You are given less time if you have a mortgage because they can apply for a second charge on your property.

Just because the figures are worked out over 7 years for eg they would want to review every 6 months because obviously they want to try and rehabilitate your account, ie clear your arrs and get you back up to your normal monthly installment.

You would probably have to do the statement of means on the phone with your creditor and obviously if you end up with no disposable because you have a mobile phone habit of £100 per month and sky package at £50 etc then you are likely to be asked to reduce those to make a large payment towards your arrears.

Obviously different banks and building societies have different guidelines but the basic system will be the same its just how long they would allow your to work your arrangement out over.

Billy_two_speakers

WhyisFreeBetter wrote: »

This should probably be the last I say about this. Sorry for not quoting the whole post, but it was long and didn't want to take up too much space.

All I want to say is, I would agree with most of what you have said about this, other than my replies being in any way 'aggressive' (?? - please have another look). I think there is one aspect, an important one, that has been missed. That is, that after 1 accusation, I wrote a fairly comprehensive denial. And it was completely ignored, even laughed at to some extent. This would not be acceptable in 'real-life', so why here?

In fact, this would not be acceptable on any forum. I've been a forum moderator (and minor administrator) for a fairly busy motorsports forum. We would not have allowed what happened here.

The fact that it was in a place like this makes it all the worse. So let me ask those involved this: what if I had been someone who was extremely stressed, in a bad way, in need of help due to serious debt? How might that kind of reaction possibly have affected me? Even to be told later by a member with a lot of posts, when trying to make my case, to leave the forum.

Thank goodness I was not. The three main posters involved in that 'attack' (or whatever you choose to call it), should be ashamed of themselves, and should re-look at whether being around a place like this is the right place for them. I can't imagine what goes through some peoples minds, that would make them be so not-nice, and / or un-justly. Had I turned out to be a spammer, it would have been easy to refer to the initial accusation. Instead, that particular member, after my denial, could only offer the follow-up post "jog on spammer", and then later "so leave the forum".

As I mentioned before, self-policing a forum is fine. But in a forum like this it needs to be done with care and with respect. If a member can not do that, then they should not get do it at all. No matter how many posts or 'thank yous' they might have.

no one attacked you , your being silly and as for your PM grow up

whats wrong has your mum taken your x box off you ? :rotfl:

you posted a comment which in the way it was posted, was worth thinking about and giving an answer others did too, and the common point of view is yet another spammer and of course people could be wrong even on a forum !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the big problem with your question is of course by the time most people on the forum have not got the money to pay someone to sort out the bills even if it was the best way to sort all your bills out and get your like back togther

people with money to pay for someone to sort out there bills could still be a few months away from doing a google for this web site