Misery of the BTLers and property developers...

Kenny4315

There is plenty of guff abot BTLers all being in the Sh*te which just isn't true, I'm happy for the market to correct by around 35% from peak, as I'm seeking to purchase 4 properties with funds released in sept 2007 from the sale of my previous residence. Probably looking at around a total spend of about £600k on the four, with a deposit of between 30 and 40%, held.

Mr Clown maybe a clown but there were plenty of BTLers and developers who were aware of this correction a good time before it occurred, I can happily say that I was one of them.

mp2

chucky wrote: »

on one property it's £1,200 a month profit - you got to love it.

capital depreciation? not interested until i have to sell it - 20 years time
rates go up? i have cash i can shift to repay capital and reduce repayments.

presumably your mortgage on that property is around 350k?

with the 25-30% drop on property prices you may be down 100k already.

its like saying people arent bothered by stock market crashes because theyre in it for the dividend.

people do this to justify themselves rather then face up to reality.

as prices fall back to equilibrium i.e 3.5 times earnings. mortgages obviously will fall, as will rental prices.

if mortgage rates fall, so will rental prices as btlers undercut each other, its just basic arbitrage. there is normally a time lag e.g 6-12 months but it is inevitable.

mp2

Kenny4315 wrote: »

There is plenty of guff abot BTLers all being in the Sh*te which just isn't true, I'm happy for the market to correct by around 35% from peak, as I'm seeking to purchase 4 properties with funds released in sept 2007 from the sale of my previous residence. Probably looking at around a total spend of about £600k on the four, with a deposit of between 30 and 40%, held.

Mr Clown maybe a clown but there were plenty of BTLers and developers who were aware of this correction a good time before it occurred, I can happily say that I was one of them.

and this is part of your problem.

you need to understand that your existing btl properties will be competing with people that will be buying at tomorrows prices not yesterdays prices.

so if youre trapped in at a higher price your are stuck competing against everyone else who bought in far lower and will charge far far lower rents in 12 months time.

your problem is not only capital depreciation but the fact rents will fall as well as btlers undercut each other as they have half the mortgage on a similar property to yours. thats the basics of any market.

if i buy in 50% cheaper than you i, and everyone else can undercut you by a considerable amount in rents.

FungusFighter

JonnyBravo wrote: »

Oh I see.... flats.... suddenly it all becomes clear.... you wish your BTL's were houses as you cant find people prepared to live in your [strike]shoeboxes[/strike] flats.



Nor me, and you with your hackneyed "I'm a real lad" chat happen to be the biggest one on this thread.

IMHO.

Sounds like someone needs a hug

Best see Stevo for that mate, more his department :rotfl::rotfl:

Hate to disappoint, the buildings Edwardian, each flat's the size of your modern 4 bed detached:D
And I inherited the whole fewking lot :T:T

FungusFighter

Kenny4315 wrote: »

There is plenty of guff abot BTLers all being in the Sh*te which just isn't true, I'm happy for the market to correct by around 35% from peak, as I'm seeking to purchase 4 properties with funds released in sept 2007 from the sale of my previous residence. Probably looking at around a total spend of about £600k on the four, with a deposit of between 30 and 40%, held.

Mr Clown maybe a clown but there were plenty of BTLers and developers who were aware of this correction a good time before it occurred, I can happily say that I was one of them.

Translation = I'm fewked:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You BTLers do talk a load of old botox on here, it's bleedin obvious your all making it up as you go along - happy for a 35% correction my @rse :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

FungusFighter

mp2 wrote: »

and this is part of your problem.

you need to understand that your existing btl properties will be competing with people that will be buying at tomorrows prices not yesterdays prices.

so if youre trapped in at a higher price your are stuck competing against everyone else who bought in far lower and will charge far far lower rents in 12 months time.

your problem is not only capital depreciation but the fact rents will fall as well as btlers undercut each other as they have half the mortgage on a similar property to yours. thats the basics of any market.

if i buy in 50% cheaper than you i, and everyone else can undercut you by a considerable amount in rents.

Don't waste your breath on him mate, he's making it up anyway

Good post though:T:T

themanbearpig

Kenny4315 wrote: »

If I need to sell my BTL then I'll really be in the Sh*te I just simply do not know what the hell I'd spend that £270k that I'd release on. Maybe have to go an order 1/2 a dozen Jaguar XK's, may get a discount ??? :rolleyes:

How nice for you. But isn't it obvious that the BTL landlords people are taking about in this thread are those that have highly leveraged properties?

If you have inherited your property or you have nearly cleared the mortgage, whats happening isn't affecting your business operation.
But there are a huge amount of landlords that jumped on the bandwagon over the past 5 years, who will be in a dire position.

I like the analogy with the stock market and dividends, its spot on.

chucky

mp2 wrote: »

presumably your mortgage on that property is around 350k?

with the 25-30% drop on property prices you may be down 100k already.

its like saying people arent bothered by stock market crashes because theyre in it for the dividend.

people do this to justify themselves rather then face up to reality.

as prices fall back to equilibrium i.e 3.5 times earnings. mortgages obviously will fall, as will rental prices.

if mortgage rates fall, so will rental prices as btlers undercut each other, its just basic arbitrage. there is normally a time lag e.g 6-12 months but it is inevitable.

£100k price drops - do you know my specific local area or are you making soundbites because you don't understand the property market?

mortgage actually no - it £442k took that to 90% LTV. i moved cash out of the loan to offset against the tax so my profit is less across the portfolio. so no tax to pay from the Ltd Co that owns the properties. just like a share portfolio, apart from this one my average LTV would be close to 55%. you have to look across your portfolio not just not one-dimensionally as you would do.

i also bought in July and August 2007 from another BTLer who needed cash quickly. property price was at about 30% off peak - i had to buy then before my accounts due in Sept which saved me tax being paid. so as you can see minus my tax efficiency i'm very well suited an insulated for this price drop. it's all very legal and all accounts are certified.

if prices did drop 60% i think you personally would have much more to worry about
than my property prices.

mp2 wrote: »

people do this to justify themselves rather then face up to reality.

it's also a good thing that prices are dropping as I'll be going in twice more before next September before my tax is due again, that's only if similar investment opportunities appear. this recession is a good thing for me. it makes it better because i'll be buying cash, that gives me an advantage of a normal buyer. so reality is good, actually as you can see reality is very good.

Kenny4315

FungusFighter wrote: »

Translation = I'm fewked:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You BTLers do talk a load of old botox on here, it's bleedin obvious your all making it up as you go along - happy for a 35% correction my @rse :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I have a £1/4 m in cash sitting ready for the 35% crash I predicted ages ago ..... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

If I don't see the relevant fall required to make buying worthwhile I'll pay off my main residence mortgage, which is worth £3/4m, and pay a good chunk off the BTL also...... :rotfl: :rotfl:

Kenny4315

themanbearpig wrote: »

How nice for you. But isn't it obvious that the BTL landlords people are taking about in this thread are those that have highly leveraged properties?

If you have inherited your property or you have nearly cleared the mortgage, whats happening isn't affecting your business operation.
But there are a huge amount of landlords that jumped on the bandwagon over the past 5 years, who will be in a dire position.

I like the analogy with the stock market and dividends, its spot on.

I pulled everything I had invested in the stock market in April 2007, which I put in during the IRAQ war. Never inherited anything or likely to either.

The position the remaining BTL will be in is strong as the crash will eliminate the competition. The result will be increasing rents not decreasing rents, as most of the BTL's become owned by a significantly smaller number of individuals.