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Company refusing to honor warranty

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  • Tozer
    Tozer Posts: 3,518 Forumite
    derrick wrote: »
    You just won't give up will you!

    When purchasing from a retailer your rights are against the seller, you have no contract with the manufacturer, once again from Consumer Direct; - "The Sale of Goods Act makes reference to ‘the seller’, this is the shop, the retailer, or the individual you bought it from, and is who you made the contract with. It is not the manufacturer, and don’t let the shop tell you otherwise! This quote is from Consumer Direct.

    This is like a broken record!

    I am not disagreeing with the quote. The "seller" for the purposes of SOGA is the retailer.

    BUT THE MANUFACTURER MAY WELL HAVE OBLIGATIONS AS WELL.
  • phlogeston
    phlogeston Posts: 228 Forumite
    derrick wrote: »
    You just won't give up will you!

    When purchasing from a retailer your rights are against the seller, you have no contract with the manufacturer, once again from Consumer Direct; - "The Sale of Goods Act makes reference to ‘the seller’, this is the shop, the retailer, or the individual you bought it from, and is who you made the contract with. It is not the manufacturer, and don’t let the shop tell you otherwise! This quote is from Consumer Direct.

    Derrick

    As Tozer has told you in this post, and I believe I have told you in another post, SoGA just gives a consumer additional rights in law.

    No amount of you cutting and pasting from various websites is going to change the fact that contract law in all its glory does not begin and end with SoGA.

    If you are unaware of basic contract law, then that is quite normal - don't be ashamed. Luckily some of us have taken the time to study the subject in depth and are happy to share our knowledge.

    If you disagree, then by all means find quote the relevant case law or legislation, but the BERR website and 'Which?' etc are not authority to any view, they are basic and (by necessity) incomplete summaries of the law.
  • derrick
    derrick Posts: 7,424 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Tozer wrote: »
    This is like a broken record!

    I am not disagreeing with the quote. The "seller" for the purposes of SOGA is the retailer.

    BUT THE MANUFACTURER MAY WELL HAVE OBLIGATIONS AS WELL.

    At last! "is the retailer"! "MAY WELL", says it all!

    I do not have figures available, ( and I doubt you do), but I would assume that there will be tens of thousands of small claims cases per year under SoGA! How many under warranties? which are additional to statutory rights, probably a few hundred, if any!

    The law,(and don't say "a law" as everyone knows what is meant, you do not say "Joe Blogs has assaulted someone, he has broken a law", you say "the law"), re SoGa gives people rights to take the seller to a small claims court if the seller does not comply with the buyers rights under SoGA, NOT the manufacturer

    phlogeston wrote: »
    Derrick

    As Tozer has told you in this post, and I believe I have told you in another post, SoGA just gives a consumer additional rights in law.

    SoGA is the,(a), law that gives consumers rights in law, warranties are additional to it and do not even have to be supplied!

    No amount of you cutting and pasting from various websites is going to change the fact that contract law in all its glory does not begin and end with SoGA.

    I am cutting and pasting from government approved websites, they are citing relevant parts of SoGA, no amount of you two posturing will change the fact that most, (if not all), retail purchases are covered under SoGA against the RETAILER!


    If you disagree, then by all means find quote the relevant case law or legislation, but the BERR website and 'Which?' etc are not authority to any view, they are basic and (by necessity) incomplete summaries of the law.

    Reread post #51 from C D, they are quoting from the relevant SoGA LAW!

    2. Contract of sale
    (1) A contract of sale of goods is a contract by which the seller transfers or agrees to transfer the property in goods to the buyer for a money consideration, called the price.
    (4) Where under a contract of sale the property in the goods is transferred from the seller to the buyer the contact is called a sale.


    There is nowhere in the Act that mentions the manufacturer, why? because the buyer has no contract with them!


    .
    Don`t steal - the Government doesn`t like the competition


  • Tozer
    Tozer Posts: 3,518 Forumite
    derrick wrote: »

    2. Contract of sale
    (1) A contract of sale of goods is a contract by which the seller transfers or agrees to transfer the property in goods to the buyer for a money consideration, called the price.

    (4) Where under a contract of sale the property in the goods is transferred from the seller to the buyer the contact is called a sale.


    There is nowhere in the Act that mentions the manufacturer, why? because the buyer has no contract with them!


    .

    Getting seriously bored with this now.

    The Act does not mention a manufacturer because SOGA does not apply in respect of contractual guarantees. The law of contract does.
  • derrick
    derrick Posts: 7,424 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Tozer wrote: »
    Getting seriously bored with this now.

    The Act does not mention a manufacturer because SOGA does not apply in respect of contractual guarantees. The law of contract does.


    And what have I been talking about on this thread? Yes SoGA, you brought contracts into it. You buy from the retailer, not the manufacturer, your contract is with SoGA!

    Your not the only one getting bored, I suggest, as we are not going to agree, that we draw a line under it and let the OP and other readers make up their own minds which route to go down,( there is always more than one).

    Advice on these forums is just that, advice.
    Don`t steal - the Government doesn`t like the competition


  • Tozer
    Tozer Posts: 3,518 Forumite
    derrick wrote: »
    And what have I been talking about on this thread? Yes SoGA, you brought contracts into it. You buy from the retailer, not the manufacturer, your contract is with SoGA!
    .

    This just goes to show that you don't know.

    SoGA is NOT the contract. It governs the contract. You have rights against the seller under contract (SoGA applies) and potentially against the manufacturer if a guarantee is provided (under common law of contract and collateral contracts and/or the Rights of Third Parties Act 1999).

    Chitty - Law on Contract - its the practitioners 'Bible' of contract law. How much is devoted to SoGA, less than 5% I'd say.
  • phlogeston
    phlogeston Posts: 228 Forumite
    edited 23 April 2009 at 1:09PM
    Tozer wrote: »
    Chitty - Law on Contract - its the practitioners 'Bible' of contract law. How much is devoted to SoGA, less than 5% I'd say.

    [QUOTE=derrick]Advice on these forums is just that, advice.[/QUOTE]
    derrick until you realise that SOGA is not the only applicable law, you will be forever floundering.

    There are a myriad other laws that are applicable when a consumer makes a purchase. If you want I can recommend a good basic contract law book?

    Until then your advice, however well intentioned, is ill-informed.
  • derrick
    derrick Posts: 7,424 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    phlogeston wrote: »
    derrick until you realise that SOGA is not the only applicable law, you will be forever floundering.

    There are a myriad other laws that are applicable when a consumer makes a purchase. If you want I can recommend a good basic contract law book?

    Until then your advice, however well intentioned, is ill-informed.

    I am well aware it won't be the only applicable law and I am not floundering, however it has served me,(and countless others), well over the years, even some via the small claims procedure, whether or not I agree re the warranties and the manufacturers we will have to leave alone as we will not agree.
    If you look on the Sticky at the top of this board, (as that was the original Consumer Rights sub section until they put a designated C R's thread up), and the subsequent threads below, you will see most if not all of the advice is to use SoGA against the seller for disputes, there is someone on there under the username Art, (from their post in that thread #805 "Before retiring I worked in a senior role for a large retailer and had experience dealing with these matters.") and they always say what I have been saying, i.e. SoGA against the seller, never the manufacturer.
    Don`t steal - the Government doesn`t like the competition


  • phlogeston
    phlogeston Posts: 228 Forumite
    derrick wrote: »
    SoGA against the seller, never the manufacturer.

    In order to have a claim against the seller, the OP will need to prove in a court of law that the goods were not fit for purpose.

    This might require an expert report on a piece of electrical equipment which is worth less than the report.

    There is no guarantee that an expert would conclude that a piece of low-end overclocked equipment should be expected to last longer than a year. By definition an overclocked card is exceeding the safe operating speeds/temperatures that the component manafacturer has specified.

    After convincing a court that this piece of equipment should be expected to last longer than it has, the OP will then be entitled to his loss. This may end up being next to nothing as he has had over a year's use from the equipment and any claim will take into account the value of the item less any use. Alternatively they may repair or replace (but you have argued in the past that they are not obliged to!)

    So following your logic, an initially expensive and time consuming legal claim against the supplier, without any guarantee of succcess.

    Alternatively, approach the manafacturer, who has offered a 2 year warrantee and ask them to repair or replace.
  • hollydays
    hollydays Posts: 19,812 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I think i'd happily take what Tozer says as correct..
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