Public sector monster needs to be tamed

macaque_2

We have had two disturbing stories today.

A report that suggests "too many children are abused because social work departments fail to protect them" Child protection departments across the land are filled with managers paying themselves astronomical salaries. In a private company most of these managers would be fired and the money used to put more troops into the field where they are clearly needed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7938826.stm

The second report is about a public service project.
“spectacular failure” and a “masterclass in sloppy project management”. He said: “Following blunder after blunder by senior managers, the programme clocked up delays of three years and forecast project costs had trebled.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5891179.ece

These stories turn up week after week and nothing ever changes. Far from being held accountable many of these bungling adminstrators go on to enjoy promotion and knighthoods. So much of our public sector is overpaid and dysfunctional. It is very frustrating to see this endless waste of tax payers money.

bigheadxx

ChristopheB wrote: »

So you "admittedly" are very well off and have a good pension. However you still feel the need to "defend your wealth so that it doesn't all get invested in the benefits/pensions pyramid scheme"? Come on share some of the wealth.

So what exactly is your problem? Your basically moaning about paying taxes really, aren't you. Boo Hoo. Nice One! How about writing a post about all those sick people in hospital causing us to pay more taxes. We could lower taxes by getting rid of the NHS too. in fact lets get rid of all public services and pay no tax. You sound like a really kind generous guy.

You also say you will be the first to post when "the choke point" occurs. Whilst at the same time linking to an article about a large public pensions fund shortfall. Excellent work, are you a mind reader? Larger pension shortfall, likely to be problems in the future? The leap of deduction you made there was genius. Please post when it happens to remind us how brilliant your are.

This is nothing new it happened in the private sector and now its caught up in the public sector. It unfortunately something we have to deal with as a society as people live longer and the number of workers in the population decreases in relation to pensioners.

I think you should count yourself lucky that you are well off and have a good pension. Many don't and the taxes you pay go towards making the distribution a little more even.

In your next post please remember. To remind us how foreigners are taking British jobs, Single moms are getting pregnant to for a council house placement. The country has gone to pot since the old days and how we should all bring back national service and vote BNP. :j

PS: Any bin men that earn 50k per year? Please PM me and tell me how you did it as I am interested in a job.

We are not all well off in the private sector and that is why we want to keep as much of our own money as we can so as to be able to put enough aside for a decent pension. Why should people on modest incomes have to work well into their 60's and 70's just to fund the pensions of public sector workers who have retired at 60 and are well looked after.

Yes this is nothing new and more could have been done sooner which is why it is outrageous that the governemt did not sort this out with its union paymasters before it went on a massive spending spree much of which has gone to fund massive pay rises and new jobs.

davilown

So it all comes down to personnal choice. I'll have a public final salary pension. Oh well, I'm sure I'll get over it.:mad:
If people don't like the fact that they don't have this type of pension then get another job or admit that going for that private sector job with the company car and airmiles maybe was not the correct choice.

davilown

bigheadxx wrote: »

Why should people on modest incomes have to work well into their 60's and 70's just to fund the pensions of public sector workers who have retired at 60 and are well looked after.

Why don't you just put a bit more into your pension scheme/save more over all those years?

donaldtramp

So you "admittedly" are very well off and have a good pension.

No "admittedly" about it, I am.

However you still feel the need to "defend your wealth so that it doesn't all get invested in the benefits/pensions pyramid scheme"?

Why shouldn't I defend the wealth of the hard working? If you read the papers I am by no means in the minority. Why is it ok for people to come on here (MSE) and moan about what they are not getting/trying to get their "entitlements" for this that and the other and me for a lower tax culture? Where's the difference? I'm trying to do the best for me and mine. Why is it OK to come on trying to squeeze the most out of the system? If you post up querying the size of the state/system you get called "greedy" "bitter" etc etc. I'm sorry I'm not bitter or greedy, I just don't want to pay for wasters lifes! I think you'll find a bigger percentage of the population agree with me and I believe this will be shown at the next election.

So what exactly is your problem? Your basically moaning about paying taxes really, aren't you. Boo Hoo. Nice One! How about writing a post about all those sick people in hospital causing us to pay more taxes. We could lower taxes by getting rid of the NHS too. in fact lets get rid of all public services and pay no tax. You sound like a really kind generous guy.

I really don't mind paying taxes if they are well spent. But they are not. As for your comment about the NHS and the sick that is simple nonsense. Nobody wants to see ill people not getting better, you could have phrased the sentence even better by inserting "sick kids" or the like. How dare you try to associate me with wishing bad on ill people.
The inneficiences of the NHS is the problem. Large amounts of money are handed over with few increases in improvements. That's what happens when socialism takes the reins.

You also say you will be the first to post when "the choke point" occurs. Whilst at the same time linking to an article about a large public pensions fund shortfall. Excellent work, are you a mind reader? Larger pension shortfall, likely to be problems in the future? The leap of deduction you made there was genius. Please post when it happens to remind us how brilliant your are.

The choke point will be when public sector pensions are cut/rebalanced fairly. The time will come (soon) when policies are changed. THAT is the choke point. Absolutely no "mind reading" required.

I think you should count yourself lucky that you are well off and have a good pension. Many don't and the taxes you pay go towards making the distribution a little more even.

What exactly is FAIR about redistributing the wealth so that things are "more even"?
"More even" for who? The people who didn't try at school, didn't go to university, don't try to better themselves, don't get up out of their pits to go to job interviiews, quite content living on the social etc etc etc.
Why exactly is that "fair"? Please define how that is "fair".

In your next post please remember. To remind us how foreigners are taking British jobs, Single moms are getting pregnant to for a council house placement. The country has gone to pot since the old days and how we should all bring back national service and vote BNP. :j

Yes, yes same old nonsense. I welcome foreigners to our country. They work hard and are more than entitled to the money. I'd very happily swap the lazier part of our "british" society for the hard working Poles who come here. Out working the farm jobs/bar jobs that are below(below, how can that be possible?) many or our dole cheque recipients. I'd very happily swap this section of society. (I have a funny feeling though that Poland wouldn't have them) That is social mobility in action and unfortunately we're stuck with the lazy benefits mob. (who won't get off the couch and away from their Sky TV)

Old_Slaphead

davilown wrote: »

So it all comes down to personnal choice. I'll have a public final salary pension. Oh well, I'm sure I'll get over it.:mad:
If people don't like the fact that they don't have this type of pension then get another job or admit that going for that private sector job with the company car and airmiles maybe was not the correct choice.

I agree that the perk of company car was once too widespread however there are approx 1 million company cars which works out at about 5% of private sector employees have them. The vast majority of these are for sales reps and directors for which they are considered to be 'tools of the trade'. Private use of car is a taxable benefit as is private petrol.

nb LG workers get up to 59p/mile for business mileage - that's nearly 20p profit (according to Inland Revenue)

Airmiles ???? Not heard that one but I'm sure it exists. Often not much of a perk these days as cheaper flights are available on budget airline promos.

BTW the FS pension scheme is not the only 'perk' available to public sector workers.

FWIW I'd make the most of your pension because I strongly believe that it won't be available for much longer in it's current format. Clearly it's extremely expensive in a shrinking economy. Significant savings will need to be made in public spending over the next decade and such an open ended commitment will only be possible if staff numbers are considerably reduced in favour of generating & maintaining more employment in the private sector

bigheadxx

davilown wrote: »

bigheadxx wrote: »

Why should people on modest incomes have to work well into their 60's and 70's just to fund the pensions of public sector workers who have retired at 60 and are well looked after.

Why don't you just put a bit more into your pension scheme/save more over all those years?

So I should pay twice, once for my own pension and once for yours. Plus by paying into my own pension I am probably cutting off my access to pension credit and a host of other benefits further down the line by being just above the threshold.

From 2012 the governments National Pension Plan will begin to operate whereby everybody will have an individual account which they, their employer and the government will have to pay into. Employer contributions will be substantially lower than the amount that a public sector employer currently pays towards an employees pension. The impact of this will be that employers offering more generous terms at the moment will seek to make savings by adopting a less generous and costly system. I believe that the public sector will be forced to adopt a similar scheme because the figures simply do not add up and the rest of us will not accept the current situation given that there will have been severe cuts in public spending and substantial tax rises by that point.

davilown

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

I agree that the perk of company car was once too widespread however there are approx 1 million company cars which works out at about 5% of private sector employees have them. The vast majority of these are for sales reps and directors for which they are considered to be 'tools of the trade'. Private use of car is a taxable benefit as is private petrol.

nb LG workers get up to 59p/mile for business mileage - that's nearly 20p profit (according to Inland Revenue)

Airmiles ???? Not heard that one but I'm sure it exists. Often not much of a perk these days as cheaper flights are available on budget airline promos.

BTW the FS pension scheme is not the only 'perk' available to public sector workers.

FWIW I'd make the most of your pension because I strongly believe that it won't be available for much longer in it's current format. Clearly it's extremely expensive in a shrinking economy. Significant savings will need to be made in public spending over the next decade and such an open ended commitment will only be possible if staff numbers are considerably reduced in favour of generating & maintaining more employment in the private sector

Thanks - nice to see a sensible, reasoned answer. I will make the most of my FS pension, as will hoepfully the rest of us 'lucky' enough to have one. BTW, mine is Forces pension and I will be working till 55. 37 years of going away to hot sunny places every year will hopefully mean I've earn't it!

StevieJ

Do people on here object to paying for the pension of BP workers when they fill up at the petrol station :rotfl:

bigheadxx

StevieJ wrote: »

Do people on here object to paying for the pension of BP workers when they fill up at the petrol station :rotfl:

No but I do object to 75% of the money I spend on petrol being used to prop up the state.