Advice about dismissal - please

Amber07

This was a new statement provided to the managing director during his own investigations. It basically just backs up stuff that has already been said, there are no new accusations on it.

Oh...and the colleage that OH took to the disciplinary hearing, and was going to supply a statement to back up OH....he hasn't been returning his calls, so we think the bosses may have 'had words' with him.

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Hi Amber,
Well I did say that the colleague would be a brave man to take such a stance so he is probably is feeling a little guilty right now, but I think we can understand that he does need to protect his own position. These do sound like very nasty people:mad:.

Maybe DFC will come online and give her opinion on your current situation. My advice would be 1) OH has lost his job, can't really change that, just need to keep applying and stay positive. 2) Attend the appeal hearing, let it run its course, OH just states his reasons for appealing as stated in his letter of appeal. If they refer to their latest statement I would recommend that he just states that this was not included in their original investigation, did not form part of the evidence on which they based their decision to dismiss and therefore is not admissible in the appeals process. Make sure OH pays particular note on their decision process at the appeal. Was there any sought of break or was the decision given immediately at the end of the discussion. As hard as it maybe OH needs to just go through the motions to ensure he has completed the process, remain calm allow them to make their decision and just leave. Make note whether they say that the decision of the appeal will be sent in writing and the time span for this to happen. 3) Apply to the tribunal for unfair dismissal on the grounds of failure to follow the correct procedures.
Having read through the entire thread it would seem obvious that they just wanted rid of OH for their own reasons and therefore have just put things together to make a case for dismissal. OH has been treated shabbily by a bunch of ****holes who deserve their come comeuppance at a tribunal. Oh may not be able to clear his name of these accusations but I think he stands a good chance of making them pay financially for the way he has been treated.:j
You both need to get by this hearing, look to the future and do not let this blip consume your lives. With a bit of luck when they receive the tribunal notification they might just fill their pants, I for one hope they drown in it.:rotfl:

Floss

Amber07 wrote: »

......Something I wanted to ask if anyone can help. After OH got the witness statements last week, the other day a new statement came through backing up the other ones. It was from another employee and it states:

'I have been asked about the allegations of bullying which have been made against the former manager, Mr **** which led to his recent dismissal for Gross Misconduct. I have been shown copies of the witness statements made by ****, **** and *** and also a copy of the notes taken at the disciplinary hearing conducted by Operations manager ****. I can confirm that the allegations made against **** are factual and true'

etc etc

What I am wondering is...should he have been allowed to read all the statements and meeting notes before making his personal witness statement? ......

Is this the Management case, i.e. the investigation report as requested by the MD? If so, then he should have interviewed all the "witnesses" and also your OH. Has he done this? Has this report appeared after the actual hearing? If this is the case and this is the investigation report, during the disciplinary hearing, your OH should have had the opportunity to question this person and "pick holes" in his statement.

As BSW says, OH has to be seen to go through the motions, before registering with the Tribunals Service. This is a technicality of the process.

Amber07

Floss wrote: »

Is this the Management case, i.e. the investigation report as requested by the MD? If so, then he should have interviewed all the "witnesses" and also your OH. Has he done this? Has this report appeared after the actual hearing? If this is the case and this is the investigation report, during the disciplinary hearing, your OH should have had the opportunity to question this person and "pick holes" in his statement.

As BSW says, OH has to be seen to go through the motions, before registering with the Tribunals Service. This is a technicality of the process.

The MD did state he was going to carry out his own investigation, so I assumed that this new statement would be allowed for that. We only have a problem with the fact that he has been allowed to see the other statements before his was made.:mad:

Well, OH is going to make it clear on Thurs that he is determined to take this to a tribunal, hopefully that might wake them up a bit.

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Hi AmberJust copied this off the worksmart website from the TUC and i think hubby should just go through the motions, don't tell them he is going to take it further and just apply to the tribunal under 'Automatically Unfair Dismissal' for failing to follow the minimum procedures. That's what I would do anyway, then they will know he means business and just might come to their senses!!!!!

What is an unfair dismissal?

Unfair dismissals are terminations of employment by the employer, with or without notice of termination of employment, where the reason for dismissal is not one of the five statutory fair reasons.
The employer has to show that the reason, or main reason where there is more than one, is one of the following:

• capability or qualifications,
• conduct,
• retirement,
• redundancy,
• a statutory requirement (e.g. holding a driving licence).

In addition, if the reason is not one of these five, but there was some other substantial reason that justified the dismissal of the employee, then it can still be a fair dismissal.
The law also states that, in taking into account the reason for dismissal, the employer must have acted reasonably. Guidelines established over the years by tribunals and higher courts have emphasised the need for employers to operate fair procedures and to comply with the ACAS Code of Practice on discipline and grievance. As a minimum the employer has to comply with the statutory dismissal procedures.
Dismissed employees may complain to an employment tribunal if they have at least 12 months' service. Certain employee resignations may be constructive dismissals.
Automatically unfair dismissals do not require the 12 months' qualifying service.

What is an automatically unfair dismissal?

There is now a long list of automatically unfair dismissals. These include:

• dismissals connected with pregnancy or maternity
• dismissals related to trade union membership
• dismissals for asserting any statutory right (i.e. a right given by legislation), such as a request for a written statement of particulars of employment, or complaining about health and safety
• dismissals where the employer has failed to use the standard minimum disciplinary procedure

Amber07

Thanks Burny

I think he was going to tell them he would take it to tribunal to scare them a bit in the hope they would come to a compromise agreement? So you think it would be better to keep his cards closer??

I think we definitely have unfair dismissal - just hope the deciding powers think the same way.

987654

Amber07 wrote: »

Thanks Burny

I think he was going to tell them he would take it to tribunal to scare them a bit in the hope they would come to a compromise agreement? So you think it would be better to keep his cards closer??

I think we definitely have unfair dismissal - just hope the deciding powers think the same way.

Hi Amber

Well done for keeping focused - your hubby needs your support - in turn we will support you.

Personally I wouldn't use the tribunal as leverage at this stage. It seems they believe they have a strong case for dismissal, further failings re appeal will strengthen the case if a tribunal is needed (or contribute to a compromise agreement after appeal).

Based on the ethics of the company so far I can't see them reacting to anything until they see an actual ET claim.

Good luck for Thursday, has he still got a colleague going with him?

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Hi Amber,
978654 agrees with me, as I would imagine most of the other respondents would, many have said that they have not followed correct procedures on many occasions. I hope OH can find someone to accompany him just to be a witness and a note taker. If not ensure that he reads their notes, requests a signed copy by himself and who ever is taking the notes for them, but do get a copy there and then if possible.
If it were me I would be humble and meek and make out that they had beaten me leave the room a broken person, head down in despair, once through their door and in their sight I would stand straight, head high and punch the air and shout YES so that they could hear it. A bit dramatic and over the top, I know, but that's me. But if I was his ex-employer and saw this reaction it would definitely make me think that I had just fallen into a trap of some sort. Plus it would make me feel better as well.:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Power is in knowledge and you have the knowledge that everyone here is rooting for you both and will support you until its over.
Be strong, think positive and start preparing to apply to the tribunal.
Best of luck to OH for Thursday we will all be thinking of him.:beer:

Amber07

Good points, thanks to you both.

I will tell him to keep quiet about it all for now then.

He doesn't have the colleague going with him that was there the last time, since he hasn't been returning OH's calls. He has got his friend/boss from a previous job going with him. They can't tell him he has to take a colleague now, because officially he doesn't have any.

So he will have some support on the day. I would go with him, but I'm scared I wouldn't be able to hold back from giving them a piece of my mind :mad:

LOL @ the 'over the top' reaction Burny - OH will quite like that, if not, I'm going to convince him to give his best smile and say 'thank you very much' to the MD when he turns down the appeal

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Thats the spirit. Maybe to finish it off he should shake the MDs hand and say "Its been a pleasure doing business with you, maybe we will have the pleasure meeting again in the future":D:rotfl::j:T:cool: