Advice about dismissal - please

Amber07

Yes, she normally represents for free, on a voluntary basis. Just a shame that so many people are needing help just now. She has said we can try and see if we can get legal aid.

Tbh, I just want to take it one step at a time - I know if this goes to ttribunal it will cost a fortune, so for now I want us to focus on the appeal and fight that to the best of our ability. If they don't want to compromise or think this will go away, then I will look into a solicitor then. I am giving things until the end of April, then we will go down the ET route. That gives us plenty time before the 3 month deadline.

Debt_Free_Chick

Amber07 wrote: »

From her perspective, they seem to have made errors in step 1 of the dismissal procedure.

This is my view too. And if the Company doesn't correct this, then they are on a very, very sticky wicket.

Employment Tribunals have consistently penalised employers for simply not following the procedure.

Fingers crossed!

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

I sense calmness and rationality which is very good. Desperation has gone and been replaced by determination, very positive attitude!!
As an employer that has been down this route, but doing everything by the book, it was still cheaper to come to a compromise agreement and not rely upon the uncertainties of interpretations of a tribunal and pay our own legal costs (Estimated at £6-7k). If I was OH's employer and realised the grave errors that I had made I would want to settle before any tribunal got their teeth into this, it certainly would make commercial sense and save them a load of money.
They are on a hiding to nothing in my opinion so just go for the jugular but in a nice polite way:rotfl:

Amber07

Oh I definitely 'do' polite, it's my forte. I will be over the moon if they want to compromise, will also mean DH can get a reference sooner rather than later.:j

DF-Chick - That's the part I was hanging on waiting for her to say - as soon as she said it aloud I just sighed with relief and said 'Thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to hear':rotfl:

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Hi Amber,
How are you both doing, no postings so take it you are hard at work putting the appeal stuff in place, thats the worst part about all this its a game of waiting to see what happens next but unfortunately there is really not much that anyone can do about that, except keep smiling and being positive.
I hope you won't mind but I wanted to ask D_F_C a quick question, in the hope that she could give me an opinion before tomorrow, thats if she logs in tonight.
We have offered employment today to someone who was given official notice of redundancy last Friday with four weeks notice. Prior to the interview today they had spoken to the Chairperson of their organisation to ask what would be their stance if a job was offered which would require them to leave prior to the end of the notice period. The response was that although this scenario would have to be run by the company board that deals with their employment advice they did not think that there would be any issues/problems with letting them go earlier than the notice issued and that the Chair did say that if that situation arose it would be their proposal to the rest of the board (very small organisation) that this employee be allowed to leave without losing any of their entitlements.
Now here's the question. After we offered the job to this person we asked if they could start asap and if possible next Monday bearing in mind that they told us what their Chairman had said. They contacted their Chairman and this is part of what they said in their email:
'In terms of the formalities please confirm your resignation in writing asking the *******(Company name) to waive the four weeks notice required in your contract of employment...............
In the circumstances I will accept your resignation from Friday 6th on behalf of the ****************. Your final pay will be made up to that date......(No mention of redundacy).................
I will confirm issue of Redundancy pay when *********** Legal Service replies to me.'
Where does this person stand at this point? They did contact the Chairman and voice their concerns about handing in their resignation as they felt that this would then result in losing their right to their redundancy only to be told that they should ignore the terminology in the email and that their (the redundant employee) rights would not be affected, although they did say they were still awaiting to talk to their legal guys. I would like to think that the company will keep to their word, though their is nothing in writing to back this up and we would not want our new employee to lose out on their entitlements. Should they not resign and just hand in a 'counter notice' giving the required minimum one days notice. What do you think would be best advice for this person? We really would like them to start on Monday as they are the best person for this vacancy. A reply tonight is required if at all possible.
Sorry for posting this here but I did not want to start a new thread for one night only and i was mightly impressed by D_F_Cs' responses to your dilemma so I thought I would ask here.
Thanks in anticpation of a reply and thanks for (hopefully) not being annoyed with me for doing this Amber.

Debt_Free_Chick

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow wrote: »

I wanted to ask D_F_C a quick question, in the hope that she could give me an opinion before tomorrow, thats if she logs in tonight.

After we offered the job to this person we asked if they could start asap and if possible next Monday bearing in mind that they told us what their Chairman had said. They contacted their Chairman and this is part of what they said in their email:
'In terms of the formalities please confirm your resignation in writing asking the *******(Company name) to waive the four weeks notice required in your contract of employment...............
In the circumstances I will accept your resignation from Friday 6th on behalf of the ****************. Your final pay will be made up to that date......(No mention of redundacy).................
I will confirm issue of Redundancy pay when *********** Legal Service replies to me.'
Where does this person stand at this point?

They are being asked to resign and if they do so, the Company is under no obligation to pay any redundancy whatsoever.

They did contact the Chairman and voice their concerns about handing in their resignation as they felt that this would then result in losing their right to their redundancy

They were/are right to be concerned about this

only to be told that they should ignore the terminology in the email and that their (the redundant employee) rights would not be affected, although they did say they were still awaiting to talk to their legal guys.[I would like to think that the company will keep to their word, though their is nothing in writing to back this up and we would not want our new employee to lose out on their entitlements.

Whilst, in law, contracts can be binding even if they are verbal, the difficulty is in proving who said what.

Should they not resign and just hand in a 'counter notice' giving the required minimum one days notice. What do you think would be best advice for this person? We really would like them to start on Monday as they are the best person for this vacancy. A reply tonight is required if at all possible.
Sorry for posting this here but I did not want to start a new thread for one night only and i was mightly impressed by D_F_Cs' responses to your dilemma so I thought I would ask here.
Thanks in anticpation of a reply and thanks for (hopefully) not being annoyed with me for doing this Amber.

It's a very difficult situation. If I were the person (to whom you've offered the job), I would retract very quickly and let my (current) employer complete the redundancy process. However, there is a risk that the "damage is done" and that the company senses they can save some money and waiting for them to resign as they clearly have a new job lined up. They may find that they are "magically" not selected for redundancy

The legal advice that the company receives is likely to simply confirm that if the employee resigns before redundancy is confirmed in writing, then the redundancy option simply disappears.

Sorry for the brief reply, but only just back and now off to bed!

Amber07

Yep, as you say just putting the appeal stuff in place. Can't move ahead until we hear a date from them.

Little bit of progress though - DH spoke to a guy who was based at his centre as under manager for a while, (he is now a manager) and he is going to write out a reference for DH to use in interviews. He also thinks the bullying accusation is a load of ***** (insert swear word) and he is going to write a statement for DH saying that he never saw anything of the sort in the time he worked there. He also told DH he said that to the director who carried out the hearing, but he just wasn't interested.:rolleyes:

Just got to keep waiting

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Hi Amber,
Hopefully you wont have to wait to long to get the appeal over and done with, well providing that they adhere to the normal procedures:rotfl:, maybe they are just getting all of the documentation together to send to you, so that you have all you need to make your appeal. Or maybe they are either trying to find it or even write it up from memory, oops am I being a bit cynical:eek:, maybe they have sought legal advice and are now quaking in their boots:j. What ever, just hang in their and fight for your rights.

Good to hear that the other manager is willing to give support to your OH, a brave man if he is employed at the same company, and would be a good character witness especially if he would be willing to describe the directors attitude after standing up for your OH. Was he interviewed as part of the investigation or did he just happen to meet this director after the decision was taken. Great news that he is willing to give OH a reference and he sounds like a loyal friend who believes in the truth. 2 positives, no 3 I believe, in one posting, brilliant:beer:.

Keep us posted.

Quick message for D_F_C. Thanks for the response, passed it on and also spoke to their general manager, know them well, and seems they have agreed to allow early termination and pay the redundancy. Thanks again.

Amber07

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow wrote: »

Good to hear that the other manager is willing to give support to your OH, a brave man if he is employed at the same company, and would be a good character witness especially if he would be willing to describe the directors attitude after standing up for your OH. Was he interviewed as part of the investigation or did he just happen to meet this director after the decision was taken. Great news that he is willing to give OH a reference and he sounds like a loyal friend who believes in the truth. 2 positives, no 3 I believe, in one posting, brilliant:beer:.

.

Well, he was the colleague who took the notes for DH at the hearing, so he knows the full story. He wasn't interviewed, he just spoke to the director afterwards when he done his rounds. DH did say to him he didn't have to supply anything if he thought his job might be at risk, goodness knows we wouldn't like to see anyone else going through this!! But the guy is really annoyed that they have done this, and thinks someone has to tell the truth.

Nice that DH has someone who isn't scared to stick up for him, it could make all the difference.

Yes, 3 positives - who would have thought it at this stage eh? :rotfl:

Burny_Sweetwater_Glasgow

Well the mere fact that he was willing to accompany OH tells me that he is not afraid of the possible consequences (and I sincerely hope that there are none), its really good to know at times like this that there are people willing to stick up for justice and have the courage of their convictions. Believe me there are not many who would be willing to do what he has offered. All credit to him for his support of your OH, that must make him (OH) feel more positive about his future.