ELQ univeristy by university

rhythmisadancer

Thanks for raising this Ahai, I've been looking everywhere for a list like this. Thanks Molanole for your comprehensive list of links - it's saved me a lot of time.

Ahai is absolutely right that most Uni departments have been oblivious to the changes, despite their importance. I'm currently in the process of applying for psychology conversion courses, which have not been included on the list of exemptions, and so am having to face the prospect of paying £11k for a year's study. At interview a professor informed me that her own university's admissions department knew nothing about ELQs, and she was quite angry about the subject.

I would certainly take issue with Peartree's unnecessarily patronising post here. I don't think anyone is "confusing" top-up fees and living costs with the remainder of tuition fees. I don't recall A asking anyone else to pay either. Loathe as I am to argue with the resident forum know-all, P's post does help to point out some relevant info:
"I am baffled as to why you expect a university to be able to do so. They could only do so if they secured funding from another public funding source"
- Many universities are in fact choosing to fully subsidise ELQ students (eg Sheffield and Worcester), while others are offering a discount (eg Southbank)

"The Government has decided it will no longer give its portion of the funding to students who are doing another qualification at the same level as one they have done previously."
- Yes but it isn't this straightforward. Many degree courses are exempt from ELQ status altogether, and the HEFCE website lists the courses which will not be affected

"This is because the funding pot is finite and arguably for everyone who gets a second lot of funding, another person won't get the chance to go to do a degree at all."
- Patently untrue. It's not a zero-sum game, and although the official government policy referenced widening access, the report from the select committee on innovation, universities and skills highlighted the fact that access and continuing education are two separate, unrelated issues, and Gordon Brown has previously stressed this fact, and the importance of both, in an address to the University of Greenwich.

- "you feel that you are entitled to something and (for reasons that escape me) feel that universities (and therefore the taxpayer) should be stumping up for it, probably at the expense of someone else."
Actually, many people feel that they are entitled to continuing education, and they have been, until this academic year. If Ahai does believe this, then the 500 educational institutions who signed the statement to the select committee, the NUS, numerous major professional organisations like the GMC, the Conservative and Liberal Democrat Parties would all agree. Tabloidesque ranting aside, you make no real point here.

"in my experience universities bend over backwards to provide advice to students on financing their studies."
- But you've never had to deal with ELQs, have you? Which is the topic of this thread. As I mentioned, a reputable professor voiced her own frustration that admissions departments have been insufficiently briefed, affecting numerous applicants.

"I suspect the extremely aggressive and unhelpful tone you are adopting is not helping your cause."
- Unhelpful as opposed to a confused, patronising, ad hominem attack with no basis in fact, and insult passing for advice? ("You might want to consider talking to organisations such as the National Union of Students to help you in understanding your situation")

Good luck with continuing search for info Ahai and hope you find a way to fund your studies.

Rhythm.

ahai1

It is not for me as I was looking for information for a friend of mine who I was trying to help.

As for the funding arrangement it is a mess due to the fact that the whole thing has been mishandled by the government suddenly making the announcement and the universities not knowing what is gong to happen.

The first part of the arguement is over and the ELQ policy is going to come in whether Vice Chancellors or anyone else likes it or not.

The next thing is how it is going to be impulmented. I am fed up with the universities fighting a losing battle.

In the long run everyone will pay as the discounts and the subsidies will end. If you take a look at the fact that the government has put a limit on the number of undergraduates.

Have you looked at private places? As some places like Buckingham do offer a 2 year undergraduate degree it maybe cheaper than the course you want to do.

When is this all coming in?

beefturnmail

ahai1 wrote: »

The first part of the arguement is over and the ELQ policy is going to come in whether Vice Chancellors or anyone else likes it or not.

There never was any 'argument'. the Government just announced it was going to happen without consulting with anyone. If it happened now, Gordon Brown would probably have announced it via You Tube without telling anyone first.

ahai1

There was an arguement and a campaign for instance the heads of Open and Birkbeck were writing to the papers instead of preparing the universities for the new arrangements. One college had a petition on its website. The only problem was that it was an one sided arguement as the other side was not listening.

What is going to happen in the next academic year?

KT1985

I contacted the OU- they said that they don't know what there going to do yet

ahai1

Their Vice Chancellor is too busy writing articles for the press.

On a serious note isn't this commercially bad as people are going to go else elsewhere? To places where they have decided.

The new year starts in September. Why can't they get their act together?

KT1985

I am not sure what I am going to do. I am not doing an ELQ, but am worried my fees are going to go up to subsidise the loss of funding for those that are... need to know whether to study 1 unit or 2 in september to complete my qualification.

beefturnmail

ahai - the campaign that that you are referring to which Open and Birkbeck were involved in took place after the policy was announced by the Government. There was no prior consultation or argument before the policy was announced.

I appreciate the confusion around the implementation is frustrating from your point of view, but bear in mind that Universities are trying to implement a Government policy which is rushed and ill thought through, with a lack of any clear guidance from the Government. If you read the HEFCE (Governemnt quango who distribute funding) guidance, it is none too clear exactly what constitutes an ELQ. This makes it difficult for Universities to construct a general 'Institutional policy' on ELQs and fees and many are therefore having to treat each student on a case-by-case basis. If you were actually applying for a University place, rather than just generally asking questions, it should be made clear to you, whether you are subject to the ELQ policy and exactly what fee you will pay, prior to you commiting to accepting the place.

Molanole

KT1985 wrote: »

I am not sure what I am going to do. I am not doing an ELQ, but am worried my fees are going to go up to subsidise the loss of funding for those that are... need to know whether to study 1 unit or 2 in september to complete my qualification.

Not necessarily. What do you plan to study? Undergraduate study for non-ELQ students is still capped at £3,225 for 2009/10. For Postgraduate study, the best way of checking is to look at the website for the university you wish to study at for the 2008/09 and 2009/10 fees to see if there is any difference.

Molanole

beefturnmail wrote: »

I appreciate the confusion around the implementation is frustrating from your point of view, but bear in mind that Universities are trying to implement a Government policy which is rushed and ill thought through, with a lack of any clear guidance from the Government.

And I policy which I note today they are asking HEFCE to review:

http://www.hefce.ac.uk/learning/funding/elq/letter.htm

Not that I think it will change much given that DIUS are looking for £180 million of savings across the sector.......