ELQ univeristy by university

ahai1

Can you give a bit more detail of what they don't understand.

eljmayes

Well they believe that you can get a loan to cover housing etc which from what I've read is not the case- both the university and some of the loans staff.

ahai1

Frankly it is disgraceful the kind of people running universities. The Vice Chancellor of Buckingham was right that the other Vice Chancellors are beggers begging for money and this just proves it. Instead of trying to come up with what they are going to do some of them have been writing to the papers and complaining to anyone else who listens about the loss of income. Now in this current economic suitation they are a pathetic bunch of people. I have been reading that the department has cut student numbers in the Guardian today.

The real vicitims will be the students. The thing is that the finance departments at universities should have planned for this and given clear instructions. When I contacted the universities the staff had no idea what I was talking about. I am frankly disgusted. Leaving aside the right and wrongs it is the job of the universities to plan.

What are your legal obligations if they get it wrong? Shouldn't the universities train their staff?

In future people will be looking at the cost of a degree.

smalandcute

i can see why the government has said no more funding. at the moment they have greater concerns then helping out people who want a second degree. they are not recieving as much tax from workers then they were a few years ago and the money they do recieves needs to go to more concerning problems such as schools and the NHS.

i do agree however that education should be free to all untill graduation, you just get the student loan and grat for living costs. if you want to do a second degree then you should pay tution fees and living expenses, same with post grads.

ahai1 good for you for setting this up though i think you will be helping loads of people out good luck in trying to get the info from the unis

Peartree

I'm by no means an expert but I think you are confusing a number of issues here.

The cost of tuition at a university is covered by two sums of money. Firstly there are the 'top up' fees paid by the student - currently in the region of £3000. This doesn't go anywhere near the cost of paying the real costs of tuition. That balance is made up by the state (ie, taxpayers' money) and varies depending on the course (for example, a degree in, say, medicine, is much more expensive to run than a degree in English). This means that if you want to study a ELQ, the Government's share of the cost won't be paid and you'll have to pay the full cost of tuition yourself.

Thirdly, on the top of tuition, students need their own funding to cover living costs.

The Government has decided it will no longer give its portion of the funding to students who are doing another qualification at the same level as one they have done previously. This is because the funding pot is finite and arguably for everyone who gets a second lot of funding, another person won't get the chance to go to do a degree at all. Universities feel this is an unwise decision, particularly in a recession when people need to reskill in a new area and have been lobbying against it. This is a new policy development which universities are just getting to grips with.

From your posts, I'm baffled about what you are looking for and certainly don't understand your question - I suspect that may also be the problem with the people you are talking to. Are you wanting someone else to pay for the element of the tuition fees the Government have now withdrawn? If so, I am baffled as to why you expect a university to be able to do so. They could only do so if they secured funding from another public funding source (universities are not profit making and do not sit on sums of money which allow them to subsidise their students although they do sometimes have charitable funds which allow them to pay bursaries to students in hardship). Or are you looking for help with your living costs whilst you study?

I think you might need to sit down and work out exactly what you are asking and why. I don't want to be rude, but I've got no idea what you're talking about either. And I suspect the extremely aggressive and unhelpful tone you are adopting is not helping your cause - in my experience universities bend over backwards to provide advice to students on financing their studies.

Clearly, you feel that you are entitled to something and (for reasons that escape me) feel that universities (and therefore the taxpayer) should be stumping up for it, probably at the expense of someone else.

You might want to consider talking to organisations such as the National Union of Students to help you in understanding your situation.

ahai1

Peartree I think you are missing the point. I have not talked to anyone instead I have written emails. I am not sure where you get the idea that I want the universities to help me with funding. I suspect you may not have read the entire thread.

I wrote a very simple email to the universities which a 5 year old should be able to understand. "What is your ELQ policy?" Instead what I have got is the universities giving me some responses. If you have read the thread then you can see the responses and you can also see that most of them understood the question but to be fair it had to be taken to a senior level.

Also I am not talking about myself in the sense that I have not applied for a ELQ and am not likely to fortheseeable future.

I got angry when I heard what Hull and the SLC have told someone which is misleading to the best of my abilities. The thing is that this should have been planned for sometime ago instead what the Vice Chancellors were doing was writing letters and setting up petitions in the case of the OU, BBK and Rose Bedord College.

As I have said I have not confused the universities and I have not been agreesive as I have written a short message on a email.

I would be grateful if you can assist me by explaining where have I asked for universities assistnace with funding.

I know from experience that university staff can give out the wrong information or not fully understand the latest developments.

Molanole

I realise that this is all very frustrating especially as students are now applying for September entry. The fact is however that this policy was rushed in, with little consultation of the sector and was vigorously opposed by many HEIs.

Peartree is right, the fees students are charged (with the exception of “premium” courses) do not cover the full cost of running courses. Now that the government has removed their subsidy for those students wishing to undertake study of an equivalent or lower level the balance has to come from somewhere and in most (but not all cases) this will come from a hike in fees. If you take a look at the fees charged to overseas students this will give you an indication of a truer cost of what it takes to run your course.

HEIs are handling this in different ways however, the HEFCE (the quango which funds institutions) guidance, although sets the policy in terms of what should be ELQ’d is vague on the details of how the costs are recouped. These are uncharted waters for institutions who are dealing with this rushed in policy. Many, if not most, HEIs are looking to recover the additional cost by increasing fees for ELQ students. Those who have agreed to foot the bill for 09/10 will most likely reserve the right to amend this for 2010/11 as the sector adjusts.

However, there is some information out there if you’re willing to spend some time on Google. Everything I’ve found here is publicly available:

Brunel
http://www.brunel.ac.uk/courses/elqs

City
http://www.city.ac.uk/admissions/code/fee_assesment.html

Kingston
http://www.kingston.ac.uk/postgraduate/fees-and-funding/tuition-fees/

SOAS
http://www.soas.ac.uk/registry/fees/undergraduate/

Bristol
http://www.bristol.ac.uk/academicregistry/fees/elqs.html

Royal Holloway
http://www.rhul.ac.uk/registry/admissions/Seconddegree.html

Queen Mary, University of London
http://www.qmul.ac.uk/tuitionfees/#elq

Goldsmiths
http://www.gold.ac.uk/costs/elqs/

St Mary’s University College
http://www.smuc.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduate/fees.htm

TVU
http://www.tvu.ac.uk/students/undergraduate/elq.jsp

University of the Arts
http://www.arts.ac.uk/42965.htm

University of Westminster
http://www.wmin.ac.uk/page-17417

Brighton
http://www.brighton.ac.uk/studentlife/money/2009entry/postgrad/fees.php

University of Surrey
http://portal.surrey.ac.uk/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/REGISTRY/SFF/PGFEES/PG FEE RATES FOR 2009 2010/ELQS FEES.MHT

Bournemouth University (not about fees but useful for info on SLC support)
http://www.bournemouth.ac.uk/futurestudents/undergraduate/funding/elq.html

Trinity College of Music
http://www.tcm.ac.uk/elq

Wolverhampton
http://www.wlv.ac.uk/Default.aspx?page=17312

Guildhall
http://www.gsmd.ac.uk/archived/fees_and_funding_old/elq.html

Oxford (probably the most comprehensive advice I’ve seen out there)
http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/studentfunding/fees/fees_0910/elq.shtml

Sheffield
http://www.shef.ac.uk/ssid/faq/fees.html

UCLAN
http://www.uclan.ac.uk/information/prospective_students/fees_and_finance/guides.php

Hertfordshire
http://www.herts.ac.uk/courses/fees-bursaries-scholarships/equivalent-or-lower-level-qualification-elq-funding.cfm

Royal College of Music
http://www.rcm.ac.uk/default.aspx?pg=4406

University of Kent
http://www.kent.ac.uk/aps/information-recruitment-admissions/admissions/ELQ Admissions Policy Paper.html

University of Nottingham
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/fees/2009-10/FeeTables2009-10.htm

University of Worcester
http://www2.worc.ac.uk/registry/pdf/BriefingNoteonELQs.pdf

Bath Spa
http://www.bathspa.ac.uk/services/registry/policies/tuition-fee-statement-ELQ-2009-entry-update1.pdf

University College Birmingham
http://www.ucb.ac.uk/pdf/ELQ2.pdf

My advice would always be to speak to the institution you wish to apply to. Many will have a fees and funding officer who should know more detail, and will often have advice on where you might be able to find additional support in terms of sponsorship, bursaries etc.

Good luck.

Molanole

ahai1 wrote: »

I wrote a very simple email to the universities which a 5 year old should be able to understand. "What is your ELQ policy?" Instead what I have got is the universities giving me some responses. If you have read the thread then you can see the responses and you can also see that most of them understood the question but to be fair it had to be taken to a senior level.

I can see why you may not have got a straight answer to your question if this was how it is phrased. Remember, with the market adjusting to this new policy this is fairly commercially sensitive information and you may have sounded like a journalist or a competitor scouting around for information.

Perhaps try asking from the point of a student wishing to apply for a course, with information on what you plan to study and what your qualification is. The rules on what is exempt, and how progression through qualifications works in terms of ELQ are complex and any HEI will require much more information from you relating to your existing qualifications and proposed qualification aims before they can answer that question.

Frustrating I know but the way it works requires a case by case assessment of the individual.

ahai1

I do understand it is new and unchartered for the colleges and universities involved but in saying that the frontline staff should have been informed about the changes.

The thing is I am amazed that the VCs can write letters to the Guardian and the Independent but cannot decide on fees until the last minute.

If they wanted more details then they should have emailed me with further questions rather then ignoring my email or giving an answer which is not right. At least some of them did answer.

Getting back on topic what is going to happen with the September intake? As applications are already in and some places have not decided on their ELQ policy. Is it going to be a mess as I believe?

eljmayes

smalandcute wrote: »

i can see why the government has said no more funding. at the moment they have greater concerns then helping out people who want a second degree. they are not recieving as much tax from workers then they were a few years ago and the money they do recieves needs to go to more concerning problems such as schools and the NHS.

i do agree however that education should be free to all untill graduation, you just get the student loan and grat for living costs. if you want to do a second degree then you should pay tution fees and living expenses, same with post grads.

ahai1 good for you for setting this up though i think you will be helping loads of people out good luck in trying to get the info from the unis

To put this in perspective- the actual cost of this scheme costs 100 million pounds and was first muted when John Denham got into office in late 2007.

140 million pounds was found recently so that children/OAPs could go swimming for free for a limited period and investment in electric cars by the government over the next five years was costed at 250 million pounds. The under 25s guaranteed job scheme announced in the budget will probably cost far more than both of those put together. The point is that if Labour don't believe in cuts as a rule in regards to education then they should reinstate the funding as this is a massive open goal for the opposition parties to attack them on.

Very few support the cuts in the universities or even know about them. I'm not sure but I also think that the cuts apply to those retaking GCSEs/A levels levels etc which is terrible if you say got a "D" in Maths or English.

My solution would be to revert to the situation around 2006- where those doing a second degree would pay the subsidised fees upfront but get a loan for living costs. I would only allow this for over 25s as clearly they aren't going to be able to have a guaranteed job/training come January like the under 25s.