PPI Reclaiming Discussion part 4

amersall

Newgirl711 wrote: »

Hi,

Just had a rejection letter from Nationwide for PPI on an old mortgage with Dunfermline Building Society I had about 12 years ago.

I complained it was missold for the following reasons:

* We were not told it was optional, we were told it was compulsary to get the mortgage
* We were not told what it would and would not cover
* We were not asked if we had appropriate cover elsewhere
* Sales person pushy in selling policy
* We had adequate cover through our employers (full pay for 6 months, then 6 months at 75%)
* We were concerned that sales assistant who sold us the policy had no financial background & the policy was not sold in our best interests

They rejected it on the basis of:

* Dunfermline Building Society never insisted on the purchase of a MPPI policy
* Purchasing the policy had no influence on whether I would be granted the mortgage
* Their representatives were under no obligation to ask about my employee benefits
* Their representatives are sufficiently trained & it was up to me to decide whether or not the policy met my needs.

Can anyone please advise how to respond to this? Do I ask them to reconsider claim or do I have go to the Ombudsman?

What are my chances that they will reconsider and uphold my complaint?

Look here for other reasons for mis sell
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/ppi-loan-insurance#step2
Are there anymore that apply to you? if there is,then request Nationwide reconsider your complaint,if not then send this to FOS.

Kuffs1978

amersall wrote: »

This is just a guess,but, when the ppi monthly payments were made,this reduced the balance of the loan by this amount,this included the interest.
The ppi is then taken off the loan balance,the interest on those payments should not have reduced the balance as these have been given back to you for what you paid,so these are put back to the loan,this is hard to follow i know,but they cannot reduce the loan by what should not have been paid in the first place.
This happens with FP loans,people have wondered why the balance has gone up when they have had the ppi removed.
They cannot give you this interest back twice as this would put you into a better position than you were before the ppi and redress is to put you back into the position you should have been had the ppi not been added.

Best thing to do is take the loan monthly payment add how many have been paid to date,these should include interest,if the interest is not shown as a seperate amount,this will show you the balance that should now be owing,less the overpayments that were made,this should tally.
What was the term and the loan monthly payment (with no ppi)?.

For clarification on what i have said,ring FOS and ask if this is what has been done,this may explain why they said
"Norton cannot require X to reduce the loan beyond that which would now have applied had the PPI not been sold"

I may be wrong,and if i am,please let me know.

Also,the loan would not have taken less time to clear,the loan would have carried on to term end with the monthly payment for the loan,as from the start date,without the ppi monthly amount.

Hi Amersall,

OK, the loan agreement dated 14th August 2007 reads as follows:

Loan £10,000
Interest £3,009.70
Interest rate: 10.89%
Loan period 60 months.

Yesterday it was confirmed by GE Money that the £3,009.70 interest over the 60 month period equated to £50.16 in interest per month. When added to the £166.66 monthly capital repayment (10,000 divided by 60 payments) this should have meant that my sister's repayments should have been £216.82 a month, which is roughly in line with the £216.88 I had been previously informed. This is all my sister should have repaid each month, an according to the Ombudsman's statement on the final decision that "X should be placed back in the position she would have been in had the PPI not been sold"

In October 2011 GE Money contacted us and informed us that my sister's monthly repayments were fully upto date, therefore indicating that since she had made her first repayment in October 2007, she had therefore made 48 repayments. Now, if working on the premise that she had only been paying the £216.88 she should have without the PPI per month, by the same logic at the very least she had therefore made 48 repayments of £216.88, which amounts to £10,410.24, which is only £2,599.46 short of the £13,009.70 the Ombudsman has agreed she repay (as that is all she would have been expected to repay if she hadn't bought the PPI). That was my first indication that the outstanding figure of £3354.20 is wrong. The second indication that it was wrong is that we sat down and over the course of two nights went through every bank statement and the actual statements from GE Money themselves, noting every payment that was made to the loan account since the loan was issued in August of that year. I then deducted the cost of every PPI premium paid (£1537.50 divided by 60=£25.63) until it's cancellation in April 2011, and then added all the totals paid for each calendar year together. They totalled £11,334, which if divided by payments of £216.88 means that my sister has made 52.25 repayments, and is therefore only £1,680.82 short of repaying the contractual £13,009.70.
However, because of the PPI being added, additional interest was charged on the account, and instead of an annual £601.92 in interest being charged, the actual interest has been quite shocking. These were:

Before repayment period commenced: £148.23
2007: £292.01
2008: £1082.21
2009: £988.57
2010: £742.23
2011: £403.98
Total interest accrued Aug 2007-Nov 2011: £3,657.23

You will no doubt notice that the annual interest was quite different in the years previous to 2011 when the PPI was cancelled, and I firmly believe that the interest charged on the account is the problem. If she had just been charged the annual £601.92 which the FOS have agreed should have been the case, at £216.88 a month, she would have repaid £10,410.24 of the loan, and £2,407.68 in interest by November 2011. But her payment history shows she has repaid £11,334.20 in repayments, whilst being charged (and surely that means she's paid?) £3,657.23 in interest over the same period. With such large amounts having already been repaid, how can Norton (and GE Money) justify their claim that she still has £3354.20 yet to pay?

amersall

Kuffs1978 wrote: »

Hi Amersall,

OK, the loan agreement dated 14th August 2007 reads as follows:

Loan £10,000
Interest £3,009.70
Interest rate: 10.89%
Loan period 60 months.

Yesterday it was confirmed by GE Money that the £3,009.70 interest over the 60 month period equated to £50.16 in interest per month. When added to the £166.66 monthly capital repayment (10,000 divided by 60 payments) this should have meant that my sister's repayments should have been £216.82 a month, which is roughly in line with the £216.88 I had been previously informed. This is all my sister should have repaid each month, an according to the Ombudsman's statement on the final decision that "X should be placed back in the position she would have been in had the PPI not been sold"

In October 2011 GE Money contacted us and informed us that my sister's monthly repayments were fully upto date, therefore indicating that since she had made her first repayment in October 2007, she had therefore made 48 repayments. Now, if working on the premise that she had only been paying the £216.88 she should have without the PPI per month, by the same logic at the very least she had therefore made 48 repayments of £216.88, which amounts to £10,410.24, which is only £2,599.46 short of the £13,009.70 the Ombudsman has agreed she repay (as that is all she would have been expected to repay if she hadn't bought the PPI). That was my first indication that the outstanding figure of £3354.20 is wrong. The second indication that it was wrong is that we sat down and over the course of two nights went through every bank statement and the actual statements from GE Money themselves, noting every payment that was made to the loan account since the loan was issued in August of that year. I then deducted the cost of every PPI premium paid (£1537.50 divided by 60=£25.63) until it's cancellation in April 2011, and then added all the totals paid for each calendar year together. They totalled £11,334, which if divided by payments of £216.88 means that my sister has made 52.25 repayments, and is therefore only £1,680.82 short of repaying the contractual £13,009.70.
However, because of the PPI being added, additional interest was charged on the account, and instead of an annual £601.92 in interest being charged, the actual interest has been quite shocking. These were:

Before repayment period commenced: £148.23
2007: £292.01
2008: £1082.21
2009: £988.57
2010: £742.23
2011: £403.98
Total interest accrued Aug 2007-Nov 2011: £3,657.23

You will no doubt notice that the annual interest was quite different in the years previous to 2011 when the PPI was cancelled, and I firmly believe that the interest charged on the account is the problem. If she had just been charged the annual £601.92 which the FOS have agreed should have been the case, at £216.88 a month, she would have repaid £10,410.24 of the loan, and £2,407.68 in interest by November 2011. But her payment history shows she has repaid £11,334.20 in repayments, whilst being charged (and surely that means she's paid?) £3,657.23 in interest over the same period. With such large amounts having already been repaid, how can Norton (and GE Money) justify their claim that she still has £3354.20 yet to pay?

Sorry , did not know this ppi had been cancelled,when you cancel ppi on a loan,you get a very small rebate of ppi,the remaining ppi is still on the loan and attracting interest until the day the ppi is taken off,as i said before,they have refunded the interest that should not have come off the loan,back into it,as this is given back in the refund.

Ask GE money for paperwork relating to the cancellation of the ppi and what the loan balance was after the ppi was cancelled,and the rebate (if any)it is possible they gave no rebate,you need to find this out.

The interest on these loans are shocking,this must be a variable rate for the interest to fluctuate so much, therein lies the extra balance too,this loan has to be repaid on the 60th month so the balance will increase so that it is finished in this time.
I see what you are saying and the balance should be what the FOS said it was when the ppi was removed,but if this is variable interest,and it looks like it with the way the interest has not stayed static as a fixed rate loan does,then the balance Ge gave will be right.
Sorry i could not help you more,but it is the interest that is crazy,and affecting the balance.
Please update when you find anymore out,i want to know now what they have done with this loan interest.

amersall

Hi Kuffs,will be back on later,i will see if i can get hold of Niggly, he is good with calcs
(i will rephrase that...he is brilliant) and maybe able to work out what has happened with this loan x.

Kuffs1978

amersall wrote: »

Sorry , did not know this ppi had been cancelled,when you cancel ppi on a loan,you get a very small rebate of ppi,the remaining ppi is still on the loan and attracting interest until the day the ppi is taken off,as i said before,they have refunded the interest that should not have come off the loan,back into it,as this is given back in the refund.

Ask GE money for paperwork relating to the cancellation of the ppi and what the loan balance was after the ppi was cancelled,and the rebate (if any)it is possible they gave no rebate,you need to find this out.

The interest on these loans are shocking,this must be a variable rate for the interest to fluctuate so much, therein lies the extra balance too,this loan has to be repaid on the 60th month so the balance will increase so that it is finished in this time.
I see what you are saying and the balance should be what the FOS said it was when the ppi was removed,but if this is variable interest,and it looks like it with the way the interest has not stayed static as a fixed rate loan does,then the balance Ge gave will be right.
Sorry i could not help you more,but it is the interest that is crazy,and affecting the balance.
Please update when you find anymore out,i want to know now what they have done with this loan interest.

The loan was sold at 10.8% in 2007 and has never been more than its current rate of 10.89% Including PPI the repayments started at 246.62, then rose to £252.84 in Jan 2008, where it remained until 2009, then rose again to £261.15 where it has remained since. The only reason the annual interest charged has been slightly different is because during the months when her finances would allow, my sister has made excess payments (January 2009 she paid £661.16 alone, for example, whilst she also paid £700 during August of that same year). The bottom line is that she has paid at least 48 payments of £216.88 so far, so why should she pay more than she would have without the wretched PPI?

cappo

angelita wrote: »

cappo wrote: »

Hi angelita as i said to the downsman you could ask them but don't expect them to be entirely trueful i'd advise you both to ask the question if you get no joy, you could cca them which would be a £1.00 fee if they refuse to give you this sar them they have to comply with that info below



Thanks Cappo, so I should ask if I had ppi in the same letter that I am sending to ask for list of charges? And excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by cca them? Sorry! I'm not very good at all this! Thanks again for your help

Hi angelita cca is a consumer credit agreement which costs a pound but if the account is paid and closed they will probably refuse this as the banks seem to be doing that now and they are allowed to do this under the fsa rules, if you have just one agreement you want and you cca the bank they technically should give it to you depending on the bank, but if you have multiple agreements, charges etc that you need to look at i'd sar them which is a subject access request which will cost you a tenner and the bank has to give you this under the data protection act 1998.

cappo

fioewi wrote: »

cappo wrote: »

Hi fiona you can go back much further it's ideal to have the paperwork but then how many of us do me included,my mate has just claimed on a LTSB credit card from 1988 without paperwork. experian might give you some account numbers if they don't a sar will see link below




Just phoned PPI Claimline to see if they could assist, they said that banks dont keep the paperwork for more than 6 yrs so its really difficult to go back further if the customer doesnt have the paperwork - do you think I would be wasting my time and money pursuing this?

Hi fiona don't use a claims company diy it's easy and no i definitely don't think you'd be wasting your time, i've claimed back to 95 on here and people have gone back much further we're here for whatever you need don't give carte blanch to a cmc you can diy quicker yourself.

cappo

Newgirl711 wrote: »

Hi,

Just had a rejection letter from Nationwide for PPI on an old mortgage with Dunfermline Building Society I had about 12 years ago.

I complained it was missold for the following reasons:

* We were not told it was optional, we were told it was compulsary to get the mortgage
* We were not told what it would and would not cover
* We were not asked if we had appropriate cover elsewhere
* Sales person pushy in selling policy
* We had adequate cover through our employers (full pay for 6 months, then 6 months at 75%)
* We were concerned that sales assistant who sold us the policy had no financial background & the policy was not sold in our best interests

They rejected it on the basis of:

* Dunfermline Building Society never insisted on the purchase of a MPPI policy
* Purchasing the policy had no influence on whether I would be granted the mortgage
* Their representatives were under no obligation to ask about my employee benefits
* Their representatives are sufficiently trained & it was up to me to decide whether or not the policy met my needs.

Can anyone please advise how to respond to this? Do I ask them to reconsider claim or do I have go to the Ombudsman?

What are my chances that they will reconsider and uphold my complaint?

Go straight to the ombudsman you have more chance of them upholding it.

cappo

It seems (surprise surprise) that the banks still haven't learned there lesson.




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-2083069/Ombudsman-warns-record-number-unresolved-PPI-mis-selling-cases.html?ITO=bookmark-chromeext

clairaay

Hi there,

New to this PPI but today received a cheque from Bank of Scotland for £165 from an old credit card my DH had before we moved in our house. Now for the tough bit, he bought a car on finance from Arnold Clark, not sure of the finance company, but there was definetly PPI provided from 2 different companys. My husband was told that he had to take them out due to his job at the time. One company called TWG and one called MMS. Do i claim from them? Arnold Clark? Finance company? totally confused. Also does anyone have any info on these companies and where i would send the complaint to? Thanks in advance for any light you can shed.