Failure and bitterness.

kaflinkle

This thread has been a riot!!

What a bunch of truly nice people frequenting these discussions.

Circumstances change people's perceptions and until anyone has been through depression, homelessness, back problems, reduncancy, etc then no one has the right to judge.

This thread seems to have bought out the worst in people.

treliac

SingleSue wrote: »

I used to think the same way Neas.......then found myself a single parent on benefits.

Imagine my shame...oh and embarrassment, when those who I had been rather vitriolic about, then saw me in exactly the same situation as them. I was the worlds worse at blaming our societies ills on the benefit claimant, labelling them work shy baby producers whilst there was us working our little socks off just trying to keep our heads above water...and succeeding at it too (eventually!) and they got everything handed to them on a plate.

It is really quite amazing what a change of circumstances will do to long held beliefs...I am so sheepish about it all that I cross the road to avoid those same people I 'abused' rather than face my embarrassment.

I'm not so verbal in my opinions anymore, much safer

That is the problem if people are 'lumped together' under one label.

It's an attitude, that is seen as being prevalent in society and appears to have been fostered by govt policy, which concerns most of us.

I don't believe anyone feels unsupportive towards those who have encountered misfortune. We all want to know we can expect some security when we need it. But not because we choose it.

That was supposedly why the benefits system was set up?

louiser123

neas wrote: »

while i belive the whole benefits system was truly a remarkable thing... its being abused in a fair few situations.

Why not have it that its based on national insurance contributions? just like when you pay alot into a pension you receive more benfits if you are made unemployed.. but for a limited period of time....

If you come out of school at 16, cant be bothered to work or get a bad job then get sacked for dole money.... it won't be alot ... not enough to survive... and that will deter alot of people to earn money...

I believe it is an upside down world where reasonable earners, hard workers are crammed in 1 bed flats while their peers who got maybe a 2 C's and rest D's at gcse have a nice 3 bed council flat, 2 children and a regular income coming in.... how is that fair? and hardly worked a days work in their lives.

i do agree with this to a certain extent, however as sue says we can all find ourselfs in that very postion we so bitterly hate.

i dont understand however what cs and ds in exams have to do with it not everyone is degree educated but may be in a top job!!

SamIAm_3-2

SingleSue wrote: »

I used to think the same way Neas.......then found myself a single parent on benefits.

Imagine my shame...oh and embarrassment, when those who I had been rather vitriolic about, then saw me in exactly the same situation as them. I was the worlds worse at blaming our societies ills on the benefit claimant, labelling them work shy baby producers whilst there was us working our little socks off just trying to keep our heads above water...and succeeding at it too (eventually!) and they got everything handed to them on a plate.

It is really quite amazing what a change of circumstances will do to long held beliefs...I am so sheepish about it all that I cross the road to avoid those same people I 'abused' rather than face my embarrassment.

I'm not so verbal in my opinions anymore, much safer

I don't see why there should be shame/embarrasment on your part. You were working before and are clearly looking for work and improving your qualifications so I don't see how you can see yourself as part of the minority group who are not looking for work when they should/could.

I may get flamed for this, but although there are clearly a lot of cases where benefits are needed and justified, there is always going to be a minority few who play the system or don't see the need to work when they could. I just don't see you fitting into this group!

SingleSue

treliac wrote: »

That is the problem if people are 'lumped together' under one label.

It's an attitude, that is seen as being prevalent in society and appears to have been fostered by govt policy, which concerns most of us.

I don't believe anyone feels unsupportive towards those who have encountered misfortune. We all want to know we can expect some security when we need it. But not because we choose it.

That was supposedly why the benefits system was set up?

Very true.

One thing that really grinds me is when people lump all benefit claimants into one neat little box without stopping to think that a person may be on benefits now (even only for a short time) but has in the past, contributed thousands to the kitty.....nope, every benefit claimant is scum in some peoples eyes.

I agree that a life on benefits should not be a choice but that we should have a benefit system for when people fall on hard times.

I have already informed my children that I will not tolerate them sitting on their backsides claiming benefits although I may be being slighty optimistic with the two disabled ones (I still say they should be able to contribute to society though...in some way), the eldest will have no excuse.

chucky

kaflinkle wrote: »

This thread seems to have bought out the worst in people.

welcome to the House Prices, the Economy & Recession board!!

treliac

kaflinkle wrote: »

This thread has been a riot!!

What a bunch of truly nice people frequenting these discussions.

Circumstances change people's perceptions and until anyone has been through depression, homelessness, back problems, reduncancy, etc then no one has the right to judge.

This thread seems to have bought out the worst in people.

Agree with your second para but not with your last one.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Some seem to be more radical than most and perhaps misguided (who should say?).

Just shows the strength of feeling this subject brings out in people and how divisive it truly is.

That is why the govt should address these issues and develop more compassionate, sensitive and sensible policy than exists at present.

PasturesNew

From my point of view, I think I'd fall into the category that neas mentioned. Being here on MSE has been an eye-opener to me. I never knew people earnt so much, or had so much, or did so much. I have very limited "real world" experience, having grown up in a village in the countryside, then moved to an even more remote area. I simply didn't/don't know about "the system" and how it works.

Even now, given a piece of advice that somebody might think would help me, I am lost and confused and unable to move it forward. e.g. "train for a new career". I'd have problems with: what, where, how does that work, what would that bring then. These seemingly simple answers to some, to many people are completely out of the realm of understanding/experience/knowledge.

Some people need more practical help with some things, for a variety of reasons. As the Jobcentre is just a forms-processing factory, there isn't actually help available to those who are unsure. Sometimes a leaflet in the hand isn't enough, the person needs to be lead to the water so they understand that you can drink there. They have to SEE it for themselves.

SingleSue

SamIAm wrote: »

I don't see why there should be shame/embarrasment on your part. You were working before and are clearly looking for work and improving your qualifications so I don't see how you can see yourself as part of the minority group who are not looking for work when they should/could.

I may get flamed for this, but although there are clearly a lot of cases where benefits are needed and justified, there is always going to be a minority few who play the system or don't see the need to work when they could. I just don't see you fitting into this group!

It's shame because I didn't stop to think of the why they were in that situation....to me every single parent was exactly the same.

Thankyou for noticing the effort I am putting in, it is nice to have it recognised and I agree with your final point...there are always the ones who play the system unfortunately they give the ones who don't a bad name.

StevieJ

OK, I think we have a definition now! They are all scroungers unless they frequent this board Is that similar to house prices have collapsed (except for mine)