Free call overseas using 0870 numbers from BT landline

System

But BT's FAQ's say they will charge you for calls to an 0870 number whose translation you control:

http://bt.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/bt.cfg/php/enduser/cci/bt_adp.php?p_sid=WGolapnj&cat_lvl1=345&cat_lvl2=350&cat_lvl3=361&cat_lvl4=1083&p_cv=4.1083&p_cats=345,350,361,1083&p_faqid=12732

mary

What is an indirect access number?


An indirect access number is any number which connects you to another number that is both known by and could be directly dialled by you from your BT landline. The indirect access number charges a cheaper rate. There are typically two types of these calls.

1. You first dial an 0870 or 0845 number, and then, while still connected, you dial the intended destination number to be connected
2. You are connected directly to the intended destination number by dialling an 0870 or 0845 number, having previously routed the destination number through an 0870 or 0845 number, which can be done via the internet or by other means

Presumably Point 2 must refer to the way www.my0870.com works.
Frogmella, don't you think this is so?

Don't know if this has previously been on the BT website, or I have only just noticed it now, thanks to Young Nick

System

BT appear to me to be making this up as they go, having realised that Ofcom will take forever to ban revenue-sharing on 0870. BT's wording is, I think, amateurish bluster. How will they prove that granny 'knows' the number of a sister in Italy that she calls using an 0870 set up by her techie grandchild? How, officially at least, do they know what number range my0870 are offering? Can their billing system really not charge customers who call someone who has set up a my0870 number, but charge if his wife calls him from their home BT landline? How would BT prove that she 'knows' the number of the office in Berlin he is visiting on a given day, and has pointed the 0870 to on that day?

malc_b

I though an indirect access number was more like 18185, you dial the 0870 xxxxx number then when it connects you dial the number you want. I don't see how my0870 can be an indirect since it works the same way as every other 0870 number which are all mapped to a geographic number. That's the whole point of web sites like saynoto870.com to give you the alternate geographic number that 0870 is hiding and hence making you pay more. If BT ban one-one mapping of my0870 then surely then would have to ban all 0870 as they are all indirect in that sense.

Sunny2

I've just tired signing up but got an email response that there are no more 0870 numbers left but, they are trying to get more.

Have I understood correctly? By signing up to this service I can call mobiles from my BT (call anytime) landline and NOT be charged for the call - either by BT or by my 0870? If that's the case who DOES actually pay for the call - i.e. the person I am calling? At the moment I'm using 18185 and although cheaper than BT - costs a fortune to keep in contact with the kids - who never have any credit :rolleyes:

Fred_Bear_2

mary wrote: »

What is an indirect access number?

2. You are connected directly to the intended destination number by dialling an 0870 or 0845 number, having previously routed the destination number through an 0870 or 0845 number, which can be done via the internet or by other means

Presumably Point 2 must refer to the way www.my0870.com works.
Frogmella, don't you think this is so?

I agree with you mary. I have have used my0870 twice. The first number was charged but BT refunded the £1.40 when I complained. The second number was not charged. However rule 2 clearly shows BT intend to charge for these calls so let's enjoy them while we can.
p.s. Just had a terrible thought: Could BT, in say 6 months' time, apply retrospective charges?

System

Sunny2 wrote: »

... who DOES actually pay for the call

Your monthly payment to BT now includes (subject to a monthly limit on the number of minutes and number of calls) calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers. So you are paying for the call, as part of this block monthly payment. BT are hoping that they will still make a profit, based on what they know about customers' average calling of 0845 and 0870 numbers. And they are hoping that the current payments they have to make the Telco supplying any 0870 number, when that number is called, will soon be stopped. Ofcom are still dithering about that.

BT hadn't foreseen that the ingenious chaps at 3C would buy a block of 0870 numbers, let people point them to UK mobiles and popular overseas numbers, collect 4p a minute (or so, daytime, much less evenings and weekends) from BT when they are called, and forward them to the UK mobile or overseas at a cost to 3C of (I suppose) a bit less than 4p a minute.

So now BT are claiming that 'indirect' means both 'indirect' and 'direct'. (Next week, 'up' means 'down'.)

BT doesn't, by fair means, know what block(s) of 0870 numbers 3C has bought for the my0870 service. I don't know whether BT can find out by foul means. And BT doesn't know what real number any given 0870 number translates to (except, in some cases, by logging on to saynoto0870!)

Moreover, BT's purported, and flagrantly mad, definition part 2 implies that, if I've pointed one of 3C's 0870 numbers to (say) my son's mobile, they will charge me when I call it, because I know his number and have controlled what the 0870 number points to. But if I tell baby frogmella the 0870 number and (s)he calls it, they can't charge her/him, because (s)he doesn't control the number and doesn't know what mobile number it points to. BT's billing system is not capable of that.

BT could, and possibly will, complain to Ofcom that 3C is 'artificially stimulating the traffic' on 3C's block of 0870 numbers, and that therefore BT doesn't have to pay 3C when they are called. If that happens, let's hope that the chaps at 3C have the energy to fight BT, and the courage to go on providing the service while Ofcom mulls over the matter, no doubt for its usual year or two.

mary

YoungNick,

That's shed a lot of light on it for me. Thanks.

Fred_Bear_2

YoungNick - Thanks for your great explanation. Why do you think BT charged me for one of my my0870 numbers. I had made about ten calls to various 0870 numbers this month but this was the only one that was charged. Was that just a coincidence? Also, who does 3C buy their blocks of numbers from? If BT pays 3C 4p per minute surely they know who owns the numbers.

System

Fred_Bear wrote: »

[1] Why do you think BT charged me for one of my my0870 numbers?
[2] Also, who does 3C buy their blocks of numbers from? If BT pays 3C 4p per minute surely they know who owns the numbers.

[1] Because BT's billing system is full of bugs.
[2] Dunno, but the chaps at 3C are obviously bright, so it won't have been BT. BT has to pay the Telco (the 'terminating supplier') which is providing the 0870 numbers, not 3C. That Telco then pays 3C. BT don't know, unless the Telco improperly tells them, that 3C is the user of any given 0870 number. (Except in the unlikely event that a BT exec was awake enough to grab five of the numbers for himself. If so, and he 'fesses up, BT can charge him for calling them, provided they do a manual fix on his bill .)