Digby Jones - Civil service could have half the staff.

chewmylegoff

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

Hilarious isn't it. London-based Higher Executive Officers don't get that!

in my dept an HEO topped out at £33k.

Andy_L

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

I have been in the Civil Service for nearly 7 years, and I have never come across people working paid overtime. Unpaid overtime, yes; paid, no.

and my experience is the opposite: of the grades entitled to overtime (ie anyone who isn't in the Senior civil service - a genuine Sir Humphry) I don't know any who did overtime without being paid for it. Suppose it depends where you work & how prepared you are to stand up to your boss.

Andy_L

lynzpower wrote: »

MPs, having thier houses redcorated, having thier living costs covered *isnt that what salaries are for* I can see is unacceptable.

Depends, as an ex-civil servant if I'd had to work at my normal site and the other end of the country for ~150 days a year I'd get my transport & living costs covered when I was away. How does 150 days in a central London hotel plus restaurant meals compare to MP's accommodation allowances?

Paddy2eyes

Andy_L wrote: »

How does 150 days in a central London hotel plus restaurant meals compare to MP's accommodation allowances?

It really depends how many Travelodge deals you can score.

lynzpower

Andy_L wrote: »

Depends, as an ex-civil servant if I'd had to work at my normal site and the other end of the country for ~150 days a year I'd get my transport & living costs covered when I was away. How does 150 days in a central London hotel plus restaurant meals compare to MP's accommodation allowances?

Im sorry but MPs get a second mortgage paid.

I would assert that is is significantly better vfm for the taxpayer to have one of the UKs thousands of empty government owned buildings and convert it into one bed apartments for the visiting MPs to stay in. Alternatively they could buy one of the hundreds of blocks of flats that are up for sale at the moment ( check rightmove) they could be decked out in resiliant fittings, and be rent free. There are plenty of people in this country who work in a different place to where they live and they have to provide for thier own meals, why should they be any different? ( im not talking about hospitality as part of the job here jsut meals in the evening with family etc)

Some MPs who live within an hours commute of London claim for a house here! Surely this is morally wrong?

MEMBERS of parliament who represent constituencies less than an hour’s commuting distance from Westminster are claiming upward of £20,000 of taxpayers’ money a year to fund “overnight” homes in central London.
The latest expenses dodge by MPs has caused outrage among senior politicians who want colleagues who live within commuting distance of parliament to be barred from claiming the cash.
A committee of MPs set up by Michael Martin, the Speaker, to review Commons expenses is to consider whether London MPs should be banned from claiming housing allowances which were created when late-night sittings were the norm. It will also examine whether the system of housing allowances for MPs across the rest of Britain should be scrapped.
Twenty-four MPs with seats in Greater London claimed almost £400,000 of public money to fund second homes last year.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3382401.ece

baileysbattlebus

chewmylegoff wrote: »

£3,800pa sounds like the sort of pension you would get from about 10 years of working local government in a fairly low grade role.

I have a friend who is a CS with 17 years service - she is an Executive Officer on temporary promotion, her pension is about £3,800 - slightly less I think. She was 60 in September and can't afford to retire, So is carrying on working.

Yes it is a fairly low grade - most jobs are - and her pension was (is) based on 40/80th's not 40/60th's - so it would be a lot less than mine in a final salary private scheme if I had earned the same salary as her.

mvengemvenge

There are both truths and inaccuracies in this thread...

There is a lot of deadwood in the service, but it's mostly in the middle-management levels - District Offices stuffed to the gills with people monitoring what the front-line staff do in myriad ways, jobs they were largely incapable of doing themselves.

The civil service is a classic case of too many chiefs and not enough indians.

CLAPTON

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

I have a friend who is a CS with 17 years service - she is an Executive Officer on temporary promotion, her pension is about £3,800 - slightly less I think. She was 60 in September and can't afford to retire, So is carrying on working.

Yes it is a fairly low grade - most jobs are - and her pension was (is) based on 40/80th's not 40/60th's - so it would be a lot less than mine in a final salary private scheme if I had earned the same salary as her.

interested to know which company you work for and your pension details

also she gets a tax free lump sum of 3/2 x 3800
and presumably (potentially ) has a pension for the other 23 years ?

Andy_L

lynzpower wrote: »

Im sorry but MPs get a second mortgage paid.

I would assert that is is significantly better vfm for the taxpayer to have one of the UKs thousands of empty government owned buildings and convert it into one bed apartments for the visiting MPs to stay in. Alternatively they could buy one of the hundreds of blocks of flats that are up for sale at the moment ( check rightmove) they could be decked out in resiliant fittings, and be rent free. There are plenty of people in this country who work in a different place to where they live and they have to provide for thier own meals, why should they be any different? ( im not talking about hospitality as part of the job here jsut meals in the evening with family etc)

Some MPs who live within an hours commute of London claim for a house here! Surely this is morally wrong?



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article3382401.ece

They get the interest on a mortgage paid plus the on cost's of ownership, alternatively they could spend the same amount on a furnished let/hotel rooms.

The state buying property (as it's sold off it's unused London Estate) is tempting but that's ~400 flats needed (a wild guess that about 2/3rds of MPs live outside commuting distance). Some ball park numbers of right move suggest that's over 20 years to break even just on the purchase price, ignoring upkeep & finance costs. I would love governments to start thinking that long term but the historical evidence is they, and the electorate, don't. Plus of course is having all your MPs in "one basket" a good idea from a security point of view? "Westminster Towers" is going to be a magnet for every terrorist/wacko/journalist or protester going, at the moment it's relatively easy to move an MP if the security situation needs it, moving all 400 is far trickier

I do agree that, now Parliament rarely sits till 2am any more, commuting should be looked at for those who can and a better system of receipt auditing should be introduced.

I think it boils down to whether or not you accept that MPs work both in their constituency and Westminster. If you do then the fact they're in the centre of London means costs are always going to be high. If you don't then any attempt to trim costs are just window dressing & they should pay it all out of their own pockets and it's tough luck on those who live at the other end of the country.

chris_spackman

I think we can expect to see what they spend OUR money on in the next few months. The problem now is that some MP's are trying to change the law so that they are exempt from freedom of information laws. Harriet Harman is at the head of this group and also Lib Dem spokesman David Heath is quoted as saying 'The public will not easily understand why the way we use PUBLIC MONEY SHOULD BE KEPT SECRET'

This tells me that a large number of MP's are going to be very red faced when the details come out so much so that they may have to find employment somewhere else.

To say that for security reasons we the public are not allowed to see where MP's splash OUR cash is wrong. What these people should remember is that when they kit out a second home with the latest kitchens, buy a nice new TV and pay the license fee they are doing so with OUR money and at a time when the nation is suffering job cuts, pay cuts and decent hard working Mums and Dads and others are facing ruin is not a good way to show that 'we understand' what people are going through. They have not got a clue what people are going through, how people feel when they are kicked out of their home.

Everyone else has to pay out of their own wages, MP's should not be any different.