Should Jaguar be bailed-out????

the-stig_2

i say why should we bail out a multi billion pound company, the owner of tata is a mr.rathan tata pretty close on being the richest man on the planet alongside bill gates. why doesn't he just dip into his own pocket like other business owners have to. i am sure he owns three houses in london and i bet the houses total close to a billion. So if uses the corus and they say they will send the business to india let him its gonna cost alot of money to upsticks and move, i mean afterall he wouldn't be the first big company to go to india for cheap labour i.e virgin call centre probably 99% of all call centers and dyson, we should boycott all the companies that just go to india and put jobs at risk for the british people.. they want bitish people to buy them well produce them here then.. so i say NO!! let him throw his dummy out the pram and he can say tata to the bailout..

epz_2

I have heard the arguments about how many jobs depend upon jaguar but not any argument saying how they plan on making it profitable.

fact is its economic suicide to tax profitable workers to support non-profitable workers(especially given that money goes to india), your economy ends up dependent on the sectors with the most political clout rather than profitability.

Waterwalker

Simple answer .... NO.

Sorry Scoota, good arguments.
I have a small business, good products, good quality and we export, but due to the present problems I have had to make 30% of the workforce redundant.

Blame this on the greed of the banking world

bubblesmoney

was just reading on wikipedia that landrover is the transport backbone of the uk armed forces. this will play a factor as well in the decisions.

plus a reasonable guess that most of places where the factories for rover landrover jaguar and also corus will be labour constituencies. see places where the factories are situated on wikipedia. that will have the most important impact in govts decisions. didnt the govt bailout the previous owners for the short term before some elections were due the last time around if my memory serves me right.

confused31_2

Waterwalker wrote: »

Simple answer .... NO.

Sorry Scoota, good arguments.
I have a small business, good products, good quality and we export, but due to the present problems I have had to make 30% of the workforce redundant.

Blame this on the greed of the banking world

Fair enough, but would you like to carry on paying the 30%of your workers benefits? its okay with a small firm you can wash your hands of the 30%, and then not pay them a penny again, but the governmemt know that if they dont give jaguar landrover the loan there going to be paying millions out each week in benefits, which they will never get back.

I can not see where the problem is i think TATA are seeing if the british government are commited to supporting the british people. If i went and opened a factory in india, and i was paying a load of indians to work for me and i needed help from their government, and they said no, i would just go.

Like someone said earlier if they dont do the loan, and jaguar landrover did go, the knock on effect would be really bad, if 1500000 people are not working they are not buying, this effects, retail, leasure and a lot more businesses as people will not be able to afford these things.

I think most the people on this thread dont think it will effect them, so they think why give jaguar landrover a loan???

There not giving the money away its a loan ask youself this if you where in the governments position, and TATA came to you and said could we have a short term loan for 18 months and we will pay you back with interest??

say the government say no,Tata just say this to them

If you can not lend it us we will move the company back to india, but hey before we go heres a list of all the people who will be claiming benefits from you until they find work.

Then the government are paying upto 1500000 people benefits, for god knows how many years.

Its hard enough to get a decent job now, but with another 1500000 people looking for work it would be a nightmare.

SO I SAY NO!!!!!!! WHY SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT GIVE JAGUAR LANDROVER A LOAN.

scooter100_2

Tata 'to inject cash into Jaguar'

Tata Motors, the owner of Jaguar Land Rover, is to inject "tens of millions" of pounds into the British carmaker, according to the Financial Times. A spokesman for Tata Motors did not deny the report.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7795026.stm




A bit of perspective on how the whole car industry is currently doing.



Toyota braced for historic loss


Japan's biggest carmaker Toyota has forecast its first annual loss in 71 years due to plummeting sales and a surge in the value of the yen. The firm said it expected a loss of 150bn yen (£1.1bn) in yearly operating profits - from its core operations.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7794888.stm


Vauxhall is in talks with unions. A spokesman said: There’s a whole range of things on the table, from changing shift patterns, to pay cuts to getting rid of bonus payments; 2009 is really going to be extremely challenging.” He added: “The key thing that we are trying to avoid is enforced redundancies. We have spent a fortune training our workforce and we are going to need them when things pick up in the future.”
Vauxhall has two manufacturing plants in the UK – in Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, where it builds the Vauxhall Astra, and Luton, where it makes the Vivaro van.
The manufacturer estimates that for every one of its 5,000 workers in the UK another ten workers employed by suppliers, dealerships and other companies rely on the car manufacturer. It has requested credit guarantees from the Government to help to boost car financing.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article5380644.ece



From the reports above it clearly just not a case of a company having the wrong product in the marketplace, its an industry wide problem.If Toyota are in trouble then everyone is in trouble.Having worked in the motor industry for 23 years i have never known things to be as bad as they are at the moment.Every car factory in this country is now on short time working and drastically looking at how to slash costs.In total 8500000 people are employed in vehicle manufacturing in this country.If its good enough for the USA to extend help to their manufacturers then we should do the same.The alternative will be mass unemployment and associated problems like this country has never seen.

Generali

scooter100 wrote: »

Tata 'to inject cash into Jaguar'

Tata Motors, the owner of Jaguar Land Rover, is to inject "tens of millions" of pounds into the British carmaker, according to the Financial Times. A spokesman for Tata Motors did not deny the report.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7795026.stm




A bit of perspective on how the whole car industry is currently doing.



Toyota braced for historic loss


Japan's biggest carmaker Toyota has forecast its first annual loss in 71 years due to plummeting sales and a surge in the value of the yen. The firm said it expected a loss of 150bn yen (£1.1bn) in yearly operating profits - from its core operations.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7794888.stm


Vauxhall is in talks with unions. A spokesman said: There’s a whole range of things on the table, from changing shift patterns, to pay cuts to getting rid of bonus payments; 2009 is really going to be extremely challenging.” He added: “The key thing that we are trying to avoid is enforced redundancies. We have spent a fortune training our workforce and we are going to need them when things pick up in the future.”
Vauxhall has two manufacturing plants in the UK – in Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, where it builds the Vauxhall Astra, and Luton, where it makes the Vivaro van.
The manufacturer estimates that for every one of its 5,000 workers in the UK another ten workers employed by suppliers, dealerships and other companies rely on the car manufacturer. It has requested credit guarantees from the Government to help to boost car financing.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article5380644.ece



From the reports above it clearly just not a case of a company having the wrong product in the marketplace, its an industry wide problem.If Toyota are in trouble then everyone is in trouble.Having worked in the motor industry for 23 years i have never known things to be as bad as they are at the moment.Every car factory in this country is now on short time working and drastically looking at how to slash costs.In total 8500000 people are employed in vehicle manufacturing in this country.If its good enough for the USA to extend help to their manufacturers then we should do the same.The alternative will be mass unemployment and associated problems like this country has never seen.

The money isn't there for all these bailouts. We are expecting bond investors to stump up the cash for the bailouts and then accept that they are likely to lose a packet due to inflation before the bonds mature (if the Government goes in for printing money aka quantitive easing as seems likely).

Would you invest if you thought you'd lose money? I sure as hell wouldn't and nor would any bond trader that wanted to keep his job. The result of all this money being thrown around is going to be substantial rises in both taxes and interest rates.

lethal0r

I think it is fundamentally unsound to support a business just because they employ a large number of people. This appears to be Jaguars main argument for receiving taxpayer support. Any large company can come up with the same argument.

You seriously think the taxpayer should contribute to employing people for the sake of employing people? Building car after car that goes unsold and sits in a car park somewhere?

Generali

lethal0r wrote: »

I think it is fundamentally unsound to support a business just because they employ a large number of people. This appears to be Jaguars main argument for receiving taxpayer support. Any large company can come up with the same argument.

You seriously think the taxpayer should contribute to employing people for the sake of employing people? Building car after car that goes unsold and sits in a car park somewhere?

If we're going to employ people using the public purse they might as well do something useful like picking up litter or building roads.

As you say, what's the point in paying people to build unsold cars?

scooter100_2

Generali wrote: »

If we're going to employ people using the public purse they might as well do something useful like picking up litter or building roads.

As you say, what's the point in paying people to build unsold cars?

Nobody is building cars at the moment, that is why the factories are on short term working.Most car factories build to order they dont just build for the sake of it.As for getting people to go do something useful maybe we should start with the people who have £100 billion a year lavished on them for doing sweet FA.