Fantastic comment piece from the Times on the giveaway to mortgage holders

Really2

meester wrote: »

The middle class might be better at complaining if they get bad service from the NHS, but when I go to doctors they seem to be full of long-term unemployed.

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Could they have not come from middle and upper classes also?

Lotus-eater

kennyboy66 wrote: »

It wasn't a class warfare point, just that the majority of people on sites like this seem to be of the opinion that the "lower classes" are bleeding "hard working taxpayers" dry, usually be scrounging benefits and working for a bit of cash on the side.

Yes, picking on one part of the system is never a good idea.

Lets face it, we are all scrounging barstewards, the sooner we all die out, the sooner the bankers will be able to have larger estates.

However, if I was to make a choice, then choosing someone who never worked and claimed loads of benefits, or someone who put alot of money back into the economy, claimed hardly any benefits and then was able to get more out the NHS, I know which one I would think was taking more out of the system.

carolt

Really2 wrote: »

It is to you by you reaction, the posibility of the middle classes take money out of the system as made you react in a odd way.

You silly man, it's not my class or my point of view we're discussing - this thread isn't about me, it's about an article, which you don't appear to have read.

It states - very sensibly, to my mind - that giving huge handouts to those who are struggling with huge mortgages is as sensible - or not - as huge handouts to the poor, struggling full stop.

Try to stick with the argument under discussion.

meester

kennyboy66 wrote: »

It wasn't a class warfare point, just that the majority of people on sites like this seem to be of the opinion that the "lower classes" are bleeding "hard working taxpayers" dry, usually be scrounging benefits and working for a bit of cash on the side.

When it comes down to it however there are many areas where the "middle class" take great benefit from the "welfare state".

I'm sure people like Carol can't accept it but its is generally accepted that the "middle class" do pretty well out of;

1) Health Care - I could link up dozens of similar reports to the Civitas one/

I'm sure eloquent educated people get better service. But I doubt in terms of financial cost they are as expensive, because they don't use the service as much.

So that's rubbish.

2) Education - thats why house prices are higher in catchment areas of the best schools.

Have you any idea why these schools are 'good'?

It's because they are stuffed full of the children of motivated middle class parents! That's why you'll find three 'good' schools in Harrogate, but none at all in Castleford.

Send the Harrogate kids to school in Castleford, and vice versa, and we'll quickly find out which schools are 'good'.

The middle class MAKE the schools good.

3) Employment - you could argue that many Government jobs are exclusively designed for the middle class

Eh? 'Designed for'? What claptrap is this?

Jobs exist because they need to be done, they are not designed to give middle class people a job. You would be stark staring bonkers to hire as accountants school drop-outs with no GCSEs. It requires academic skills, that's why middle class people are middle class - because they have those skills.

And in any case, the public sector makes up over 50% of GDP in most working class areas, this is very well documented. The excess size of the public sector in poor areas deters private investment because they can't compete with government salaries (which are on average higher than the private sector).

4) Pensions - Life expectancy in Glasgow for men is less than 70 years. In Dorset it is more than 80 years. Who gets the most state pension benefit there I wonder.

Eh?

So not smoking and deep-fried-mars-bar-ing yourself to death means you are milking the welfare state? I've heard it all now.

kennyboy66_2

meester wrote: »

The middle class might be better at complaining if they get bad service from the NHS, but when I go to doctors they seem to be full of long-term unemployed.

Yeh, yeh, yeh - they are trying to get on incapacity benefit, their next methadone fix, or laudenum so they can dope their children up.

"The report said although the poor, the least educated and ethnic minorities visit their GP more often than more affluent, well-educated people, they are less likely to be referred to a specialist."

"People living in deprived areas are more likely to need hip replacements but they are less likely to get them"

"rates of heart bypass operations are 30 per cent lower in the poorest groups"

Put them in the workhouse & sterilise the mothers.

carolt

Really2 wrote: »

Could they have not come from middle and upper classes also?

They could, but statistically, the poor have far worse health, due partly to bad diet etc. Not saying it's their fault, but it is a fact.

Really2

carolt wrote: »

You silly man, it's not my class or my point of view we're discussing - this thread isn't about me, it's about an article, which you don't appear to have read.

It states - very sensibly, to my mind - that giving huge handouts to those who are struggling with huge mortgages is as sensible - or not - as huge handouts to the poor, struggling full stop.

Try to stick with the argument under discussion.

We are discusssing this you jumped to the aid of the middle classes not me.
Helping mortgage payers is as sensible as helping renters (the cost of renters is most probably higher now due to the low interest rates.)
But it is the house owners who are the criminals afterall.:rolleyes:

I do not see my sex makes any difference Carol.:rolleyes:

neverdespairgirl

cheap_charlie wrote: »

One of the reasons I am now stuck with a mortgage I can barely pay following the unexpected death of my husband.

I'm sorry to hear that, sounds absolutely terrible.

Really2

carolt wrote: »

They could, but statistically, the poor have far worse health, due partly to bad diet etc. Not saying it's their fault, but it is a fact.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Jesus carol perhaps we should kill them now.
Nothing against them obviously carol but you think they are scrounging, unhealthy, scum I personly dislike people who think their "Class" is better than somone else's.:mad:

kennyboy66_2

meester wrote: »

I'm sure eloquent educated people get better service. But I doubt in terms of financial cost they are as expensive, because they don't use the service as much.

So that's rubbish.

.

Oh I see, they are more likely to have a heart bypass if they need one, and get hip replacement when required, or get better cancer treatment.

Luckily, all this treatment doesn't cost anything because it is carried out by the fairies.