help with toilet training adult dog..

foreign_correspondent

I agree with Pboae - she is scared of the repurcussions of being caught whilst going - are you still reinforcing that its good when she goes outside - treats, praise etc?

nothavingfun..

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

I agree with Pboae - she is scared of the repurcussions of being caught whilst going - are you still reinforcing that its good when she goes outside - treats, praise etc?

yep- when i get the chance! lol

i think its my fault that she reverted - a couple of weeks ago i caught her pooing inside, & reprimanded her (i didn't think tbh - i just did it )- i didnt shout or anything- just made a sharp noise.... she stopped and slunk off, and i cleaned it up, and took her out, and that was that, but thats the only thing i can think of which might have caused her to backtrack....

foreign_correspondent

yeah, it might be - because she still hasnt got the gist that ist the pooing inside rather than the pooing in itself that you object to!

I would go back to step one again, but see what the behavioralist advises.

nothavingfun..

Hi guys

FC - thanks for all your input on this thread btw

I kinda got to the end of my tether last night, and put her in the crate coz I couldn't face another morning getting up to multiple wet patches on my bedroom carpet..... BUT... she was fine! She yipped for about 10 mins, and then settled for the night! AND she was clean, even though the crate is quite big!!

Took her out first thing, and she weed = hotdog treats She has had a poo inside during the day, but has done all her wees on the lead clever girly! It seems poos are deffo the main problem, but as they are easier to clean up than wees, I can cope with that! She has one of those toys that releases treats, which she is only allowed in the crate, and she has gone in on her own a few times today, been given the toy, and I've shut the door, and she's quite happily played with it, and been quiet until I let her out 10-15 mins later!

Yay for crates :D I wonder if she had one in her old home? She goes into it quite willingly, and really doesn't seem too bothered

nothavingfun..

just to update - she is doing great with the crate, and although she occasionally does a poo in it (it is very big for her), she is doing all her wees outside, and most of her poos :T

The dog behaviourist was a bit suspect - was rolling her over on the floor to make her submit.... a bit outdated IMHO - I think I'll stick with the crate and positive reinforcement as it seems to be slowly working!

foreign_correspondent

yup, that is a bit suspect and also suggests to me that s/he had missed the route of the problem- that she seems to be scared of being seen going to the loo- keep up with the positive stuff, it will take her time to realise she isnt going to get a scolding or a wallop one day when you see her doing it!

She has to develop total trust that she is doing the rght thing when she goes outside and can do so safely, at the moment I bet she still has those old ingrained fears and only feels really safe to toilet when she is unobserved.

pboae

Sounds like you are making progress. Shame about the behaviourist though :-( the good ones are hard to find unfortunately.

I don't know if this would work, but it might be worth a try under the circumstances. Next time she does a poo inside, instead of just disposing of it, move it outside to where you would like her to go, and then take her out on the lead and give her lots of praise just for being near it when you are there. I know it's not a very pleasant option, but it might speed things up if you can break the process down into smaller steps for her, so help her not to be scared of being 'caught' in the vicinity of it, and building up to her actually going in front of you.

Take it slow, keep praising, and try not to reprimand for anything to do with toileting (I know it's hard, but you can only do your best).

nothavingfun..

pboae wrote: »

Sounds like you are making progress. Shame about the behaviourist though :-( the good ones are hard to find unfortunately.

I don't know if this would work, but it might be worth a try under the circumstances. Next time she does a poo inside, instead of just disposing of it, move it outside to where you would like her to go, and then take her out on the lead and give her lots of praise just for being near it when you are there. I know it's not a very pleasant option, but it might speed things up if you can break the process down into smaller steps for her, so help her not to be scared of being 'caught' in the vicinity of it, and building up to her actually going in front of you.

Take it slow, keep praising, and try not to reprimand for anything to do with toileting (I know it's hard, but you can only do your best).

Thanks - I'll try that next time

The behaviourist gave me a follow up call, and said that defining myself as pack leader and 'claiming' spaces within the house just by gently pushing her away would help her to know her place in the 'pack' and to relax, and therefore help the toilet training issues. She was a lovely woman, and pooch was 'hers' as soon as she walked in iykwim, but I'm just not 100% sure lol

Thanks for the carpet tips - will look into that as they still whiff a bit :rolleyes::rotfl:

foreign_correspondent

I dont think for a minute the dog is poo-ing inside because she does not respect you as pack leader, boss or whatever - I think she knows 100% you are boss, and does not want to get in trouble with you or upset you.

She is obviously a very trainable dog, because at some point she has learnt, very deeply, that to be seen pooing or weeing makes her owner cross!

She really does not want to make you cross and has learnt (in her previous home) to avoid this by pooing and weeing unobserved. As she cant go in your garden unobserved, her window of opportunity is to go when she is out of your way in the house.

She probably realises now that the rules are changing, but not what to or why. It will take time, and she will inevitably get confused and get it wrong sometimes. Just keep up with plenty of time outdoors and gentle praise and treats when she goes outside.

I think Pboaes idea may be worth a try too!! It will give her positive associations of poo being outdoors!!

pboae

Dominant dogs do not run away in fear when caught in the act of marking. So even if I agreed with pack theory based training (which I don't) in this context it is absolutely nonsensical.

As FC says, she has been trained to behave like this, so it is possible to retrain her.

When my dog first came to us he was frightened to be 'caught' sleeping, and would panic and run away if he slipped up and fell asleep when you were around. It took months of having complex bedtime routines so that he could be confident that he could sleep undisturbed, and then building on that until he would actually sleep when we were in the room.

This awful fuzzy picture was a major milestone, the first time he stayed in his bed when I came into the room (until I spooked him by taking a photo). He'd been with us 7 months then.




It was another 2 or 3 months before he would sleep when we were there. This one was taken in 2007 and is how is usually found now



Unfortunately mistreatment by previous owners does leave some rescue dogs with baggage like this, but with kindness, patience and consistent training, they do come round.