Paypal dispute under DSR

Wig

I wish to return a purchase under DSR distance selling regulations. The item was a buy it now, the seller was a business.

If I return it with proof of postage or recorded delivery. Will paypal help me to obtain a full refund as is my right under DSR a refund of item cost and postage.

DSR regs require the seller to refund inclusive of postage. Sellers may only make a rquirement that the buyer pays for the return postage, and they MUST make this clear in the conditions of cancellation.

Although this seller has not made a very clear statement of cancellation conditions, and has not stipulated the return postage must be paid for by the buyer, I would be willing to pay for the return.. But this seller thinks he does not have to refund the intial postage.

Would Paypal protect and enforce my DSR rights?

custardy

whats the dispute?

Wig

There is no dispute, as yet, I have not filed for any dispute.

The return would be returned as "unwanted item" DSR gives the buyer the right to a full refund of item cost and initial postage (to buyer address). Only if the seller makes 100% absolutely clear can they make the buyer pay for return postage (to the seller address).

Although the seller has not made this clear, and I would be in my rights to requre the seller to pay return postage. Because I believe this would be too much hassle trying to explain the law on this to the seller, I am willing to pay the return postage.

The question is will paypal give me a full refund of item & initial postage (not the return postage just the amount I paid on paypal)? I.e. does paypal protect my rights under the DSR?

custardy

paypal will do nothing here unless there is a problem with the item
whilst you have the DSR ,really ebay isnt the place to use it.
sellers will have already paid out ebay fee's plus the costs to send
have you even bothered to ask the seller? and have you keyed in return costs?

Wig

I am currently evaluating my options, have not contacted seller. The seller says (unlawfully) on the listing that they will not refund the initial postage - this is not a good start and doesn't inspire me with confidence to think the seller will facilitate the return. Under DSR the return costs (in this sale) are legally not my problem.

I didn't think paypal would help in this matter, although I think they should, as Ebay makes it perfectly clear what rights a buyer has under DSR.

The DSR apply to "buy it now" business sellers as much as any other business.

If any business sellers who use buy it now are reading this you really should take this warning. You MUST by law set out full terms and conditions on the sale. If you do not do this The buyer can request a full refund upto 3 months and 7 days after delivery. You'll have no protection in law from a buyer who turns around to you and says

"I cancel the contract, and wish for a full refund, I have made the arrangements to restore the goods to you under DSR, please come and collect the goods at your own expense between 8am and 6pm Mon-Sat giving me at least 24 hours notice of your intention to collect."

You will have 30 days to refund the customer in full, otherwise they can take you to court, and they will win.

You are required in order to avoid the buyer having the right to do this to set out a contract on your Ebay listing - before payment has been taken the following:

You must provide clear and understandable information to enable the consumer to decide whether to buy. This must include:

• your business name and, if payment is required in advance, your postal address
• a description of the goods or services
• the price including all taxes
• delivery costs where they apply
• arrangements for payment
• arrangements and date for delivery of goods or performance of services
• the right to cancel the order

* Who pays the cost of returning goods if the customer changes their mind.

• how long the offer or the price remains valid
• the cost of any premium rate telephone, fax or internet charges
• whether substitute goods will be supplied if the order is out of stock or unavailable
• If substitute goods will be supplied, in the event of cancellation, you must inform the consumer of the cost of returning any substitute goods.
• the minimum duration for any long-term contract (eg mobile phones).

Written confirmation

When an order has been made you must provide send the consumer with written confirmation of the prior information (this can be by letter, fax or e-mail), unless it has already been provided in writing, for example, in a catalogue or advertisement.
The confirmation should also include:

• when and how the consumer can exercise the right to cancel
• details of whether the consumer is required to return the goods
• information as to whether you or the consumer would be responsible for the costs of returning or recovering the goods
• a geographical address where the consumer can contact you
• details of any after-sales services and guarantees.

You must provide this confirmation at the latest by the time the goods are delivered or, in the case of services, during the performance of the contract.
If you are providing a service with no specified end date or for a period of more than one year, for example, a mobile phone, or electricity supply, you must also send details about the conditions for exercising any contractual right to cancel the contract.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/
click on prior information to get the above info.

* I added that into the list myself because I believe that is a requirement before payment, but in the event I am wrong it would make good sense to do it anyway, because you would have to give the the info prior to delivery anyway, and you would want to avoid the buyer being able to say "I did not recieve it" If it is on your listing there is no arguement.

See here aswell

The right to clear information
Before you decide to buy, the trader must give you the following information:

• The name of the trader, along with his/her postal address if you have to pay in advance.
• An accurate description of the goods or services.
• The price, along with any taxes and delivery charges if relevant, and how long the price or offer remains valid.
• Delivery arrangements.
• Payment arrangements.
• The existence of a right to cancel the order.
• Information about whether you will be liable for the cost of returning goods if you change your mind about them.
• For services provided over a period of time, such as a mobile phone contract or a gas supply contract, you must be told what the minimum duration of that contract will be.
• The trader should inform you if he/she intends to offer substitute goods to those ordered if the ordered goods are unavailable, and also inform you that the cost of returning substitute goods will be met by the trader.
• If a trader contacts you by telephone, his/her identity, and the commercial purpose of the call, should be given at the beginning of the conversation.

After you buy, the trader must also provide you with the following information:

• Written confirmation of your order (by letter, email or fax, etc.), including the above information (see 'the right to clear information') if not already provided, say, in a catalogue or advertisement.
• Written information on how to cancel, a contact postal address and details of any guarantees, warranties or after-sales services, if applicable.
• Details of how and when to end a contract if there is no specified finish date, or if the contract lasts for longer than a year, i.e. gas or electricity supply, Internet service providers.
• Information on how the right to cancel a contract for the provision of a service can be affected if you agree to the commencement of the service before the end of the seven working day cancellation period.
• Traders who provide one-off services by distance communication, and invoice the consumer, are not obliged to provide written confirmation of the contractual information, but should provide an address and place of business where complaints can be made.

This information should be sent to you by the time the goods are delivered, or before, or soon after the time a service starts.

* here you see they say it is required before payment

You ignore this at your own peril.

custardy

i dont know why you keep listing DSR here?
contact the seller

steviebabes

I would stick to buying from Argos if I were you. Not many ebay sellers know the finer details or the DSRs. Why did you buy from this seller if the T & C's were vague?

Wig

I listed the DSR because you said it does not really apply to Ebay. Because the vast majority of sellers on Ebay are not aware of their responsibilities in this area and quite a few sellers come to this board I wanted to make sure they were not misled by your previous post.

I started the thread in general to discover if paypal assists with DSR claims - another reason for me to quote the DSR in this thread.

I'm only trying to help sellers who are reading this thread.

custardy

you seem to be ready for a fight when you havent even contacted the seller?
as an aside i personally am careful over what i order online and if its something i may have to return then i tend to buy offline
saves all this hassle
personally i think whilst the DSR is great for consumers it goes too far sometimes

Wig

custardy wrote: »

you seem to be ready for a fight when you havent even contacted the seller?

Fore-warned is fore-armed, The sellers unlawful wording gives me a right to expect a fight.

I have nothing against you, but you seem to be annoyed with me because I have explained my rights under DSR and quoted the DSR and because I have asked for advice on paypal before contacting seller.

The DSR protects sellers aswell, all they have to do is comply with the law, if they don't, then it is their own fault.

What I bought is only available online.

frivolous_fay

Your problem is that in the event of a fight with the seller over your rights paypal won't back you up, because you don't have a 'grievance' as such with your item.

I think that pretty much covers your initial question. If the item isn't misdescribed, and it did arrive, PP will be chocolate-teapot useful to you on this one.