Lapland New Forest Scam. How to get money back...

whitewing

Today's Daily Vigil posting.

This is an abbreviated posting, for full details of the text please look back to the last few posts.

Lapland New Forest
Closed: 4th December 08.
No. days since closure: 86
All ticketholders who have not yet had a refund should register as creditors with Grant Thornton ([EMAIL="Lapland.Liquidation@gtuk.com"]Lapland.Liquidation@gtuk.com[/EMAIL])
All card-paying ticketholders who have not yet had a refund should continue with chargebacks or section 75 claims in addition to registering as creditors. Gomer's Guide'll help:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...html?t=1412867

We think you may be running out of time to do a refund via your bank. We will try to clarify that soon. We do, however believe the time limit on some claims to be 120 days.

(Advise Grant Thornton if you receive a refund so your bank becomes the creditor for the amount of your ticket)

Legal action? - No further update.

The fiasco has gained some notoriety though,
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/lapland/
Lapland New Forest was the 'top' story for this newspaper.


Lapland West Midlands
Did not open as planned on 6th December 2008: www.laplandwestmidlands.co.uk
No. days since failure to open: 84
All 42 ticketholders refunded in full

Legal action? No further updates

We welcome any comments on this thread, and will gladly provide any assistance we can, so please do post here if you have anything to add or ask (however insignificant it may seem).

whitewing

Today's Daily Vigil posting.

This is an abbreviated posting, for full details of the text please look back to the last few posts.

Lapland New Forest
Closed: 4th December 08.
No. days since closure: 87
All ticketholders who have not yet had a refund should register as creditors with Grant Thornton ([EMAIL="Lapland.Liquidation@gtuk.com"]Lapland.Liquidation@gtuk.com[/EMAIL])
All card-paying ticketholders who have not yet had a refund should continue with chargebacks or section 75 claims in addition to registering as creditors. Gomer's Guide'll help:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...html?t=1412867

We think you may be running out of time to do a refund via your bank. We will try to clarify that soon. We do, however believe the time limit on some claims to be 120 days.

(Advise Grant Thornton if you receive a refund so your bank becomes the creditor for the amount of your ticket)

Legal action? - No further update.

Lapland West Midlands
Did not open as planned on 6th December 2008: www.laplandwestmidlands.co.uk
No. days since failure to open: 85
All 42 ticketholders refunded in full

Legal action? No further updates

We welcome any comments on this thread, and will gladly provide any assistance we can, so please do post here if you have anything to add or ask (however insignificant it may seem).

EdnaCloud

Today's Daily Vigil posting.

We are still hoping for some news from claimants, please post if you have a story to tell or need advice

This is an abbreviated posting, for full details of the text please look back to the last few posts.

Lapland New Forest
Closed: 4th December 08.
No. days since closure: 88
All ticketholders who have not yet had a refund should register as creditors with Grant Thornton ([EMAIL="Lapland.Liquidation@gtuk.com"]Lapland.Liquidation@gtuk.com[/EMAIL])
All card-paying ticketholders who have not yet had a refund should continue with chargebacks or section 75 claims in addition to registering as creditors. Gomer's Guide'll help:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...html?t=1412867

We think you may be running out of time to do a refund via your bank. We will try to clarify that soon. We do, however believe the time limit on some claims to be 120 days.

(Advise Grant Thornton if you receive a refund so your bank becomes the creditor for the amount of your ticket)

Legal action? - No further update.

Lapland West Midlands
Did not open as planned on 6th December 2008: www.laplandwestmidlands.co.uk
No. days since failure to open: 86
All 42 ticketholders refunded in full

Legal action? No further updates

We welcome any comments on this thread, and will gladly provide any assistance we can, so please do post here if you have anything to add or ask (however insignificant it may seem).

whitewing

Today's Daily Vigil posting.

(Hello Edna.)

This is an abbreviated posting, for full details of the text please look back to the last few posts.

Lapland New Forest
Closed: 4th December 08.
No. days since closure: 89
All ticketholders who have not yet had a refund should register as creditors with Grant Thornton ([EMAIL="Lapland.Liquidation@gtuk.com"]Lapland.Liquidation@gtuk.com[/EMAIL])
All card-paying ticketholders who have not yet had a refund should continue with chargebacks or section 75 claims in addition to registering as creditors. Gomer's Guide'll help:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...html?t=1412867

We think you may be running out of time to do a refund via your bank. We will try to clarify that soon. We do, however believe the time limit on some claims to be 120 days.

(Advise Grant Thornton if you receive a refund so your bank becomes the creditor for the amount of your ticket)

Legal action? - No further update.

Lapland West Midlands
Did not open as planned on 6th December 2008: www.laplandwestmidlands.co.uk
No. days since failure to open: 87
All 42 ticketholders refunded in full

Legal action? No further updates

We welcome any comments on this thread, and will gladly provide any assistance we can, so please do post here if you have anything to add or ask (however insignificant it may seem).

Weymouthfrankie

Hi , can you tell me if anyone has had any success claiming a charge back on Maestro from Natwest. I have followed all the advice on this forum and so far have had all my claims rejected by Natwest. I' ve been told by their customer services that they only chargeback on purchases made in europe but do not include the UK. Is this right? Any advice please will be gratefully received.

Thanks frankie

whitewing

alison6692 wrote: »

Hello

I didn't actually state any ACT I was just told by the credit card company to claim for " goods not recieved " - I was one of the lucky ones that didn't go as it had closed down by then. This has meant my claim was much easier.

Basically I made my claim by calling them - they told me to write a letter stating I had not recieved the goods as the place had closed down by then.
Annoyingly I got no response to that letter - so called Natwest again. They sent me a form out which I filled in with an accompanying letter.
Heard nothing so called them today and they ahd credited my account on the 13th January.

HTH

Alison x

I wouldn't say Natwest have been that great at their customer service but I am happy that I have my money back.

Really hope others also manage to get theirs back too.

Frankie,

I believe alison - the OP of this thread - claimed back £305 from Natwest credit card and got refunded.

I think natwest may be technically correct that maestro isn't covered for the UK. However, they really ought to be refunding as a gesture of goodwill etc etc. Codger wrote a good post about maestro; I will see if I can find it. Basically, it tells you to go thro the complaints procedure and take it to the Ombudsman as it won't cost you anything. I still feel quite strongly that you should get a refund so I am glad that you are actively pursuing this. (Has taken others a few attempts to get some sense).

By the way, have you registered as a creditor? If not, you should.

whitewing

codger wrote: »

Antispam: you're entirely correct.

It's actually puzzled me why Martin has never posted a sticky on MSE about the two kinds of debit card facilitators, Visa and MasterCard.

People seem to think 'Maestro' is some kind of, well, I dunno, financial institution, when it's only a name (as 'Cirrus' was) dreamt up by the marketing department of MasterCard Inc.

In launching its own rival to Maestro, Visa Inc provided the kind of charge-back facility which MasterCard's Maestro doesn't. So for quite a while now, it's been the case that if you do have a MasterCard Maestro debit card. . . cut it in two. And if your bank won't provide a Visa debit card, then go to another bank.

This thread actually has several reports from Visa Debit card holders who have had their refund claims properly and responsibly processed. My advice to any unfortunate MasterCard-licensed Maestro debit card is to:

1) Initiate a chargeback NOW

2) If the chargeback is refused, inform your bank that there is no reason why your bank account cannot have funds returned to it when customers with other banks who happen to have Visa debit cards have had their funds returned to them

3) If the chargeback is still refused, tell your bank you wish to make a formal complaint about its conduct which, if not resolved, you will take to the Financial Ombudsman Service. You can tell your bank that:

4) The basis of your complaint will be that you had the MasterCard Maestro card imposed on you. You were given no choice. Your bank imposed it on you knowing the Maestro debit card to be absent of the proection of the Visa debit card, and so could only have done so in its own commercial interests.

5) If your bank happens to be Royal Bank of Scotland, now emerging as a serial offender in all this -- what with its Streamline, its Maestro, and now its likely involvement with Grant Thornton, to whom it is a primary banker -- then tell it you'll be moving your account to a bank which shows more respect and less contempt towards its customers.

Here's codger's post. Get angry! Get your refund.

Weymouthfrankie

Thank you for your reply, I have registered as a creditor,but would much prefer getting all of my £200 back from Natwest and i will take this advice and persue it thru the Ombudsman. this isn't over !!! thank you.

EdnaCloud

Weymouthfrankie wrote: »

Hi , can you tell me if anyone has had any success claiming a charge back on Maestro from Natwest. I have followed all the advice on this forum and so far have had all my claims rejected by Natwest. I' ve been told by their customer services that they only chargeback on purchases made in europe but do not include the UK. Is this right? Any advice please will be gratefully received.

Thanks frankie

Thank for posting, frankie. Firstly, I do not know about that particular card, but if *anyone* out there has experience please post here.

Regarding your comment about following advice, have you taken the Banking Ombudsman tack yet? If not, is sounds like it is time to do that as suggested.

I am bemused by your comment regarding their chargeback policy only being made in Europe and not in the UK. This seems to be a particularly inept and fallacious thing for them to say. Firstly, when I last checked the UK were part of Europe as far as trade is concerned, whether we like that or not, or indeed they do or do not.

It may well be that any T&Cs that state 'Europe' but exclude 'UK' are questionable and I would like to know if in the secretive self serving over paid and arrogant boy's clubs of banking that there is an exemption to EU trade laws. Sadly there probably is. They seem exempt from anything faie, just and moral.. (Or did we secretly leave the EU without any of us knowing?). Secondly, by applying different conditions as they seem to be doing they are opening themselves up to a huge raft of questions and possible legal actions.

Do you have that in writing? If so please keep it as a record - it is the most incredibly incompetent thing that a card company can say in my opinion.

If this wasn't such a sad affair, I would be laughing at that.

whitewing

Edna and frankie,

For clarity as we are talking about Maestro debit cards at the moment, this is a copy 'n' paste from Gomer's refund guide:

IF YOU PAID BY MAESTRO DEBIT CARD

All major banking groups in the UK use Visa debit cards except HSBC, including First Direct, and The Royal Bank of Scotland Group, including NatWest:- these use Maestro for their debit cards.
(source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008...oney-back-visa)

There is no doubt that a Maestro chargeback facility exists, but it appears that some providers of Maestro refuse to do them, though some will. It has been found that RBS and NatWest (part of the same group) will try to fob you off. This is the link to the User Manual telling a bank how to do it

http://www.mastercard.com/us/wce/PDF...ire_Manual.pdf

http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchan...Rules_5_08.pdf

---

Maestro card providers aren't allowed to make up their own rules

http://www.mastercard.com/us/merchan...Rules_5_08.pdf

Part 1 3.3 Non compliance with Maestro rules

Participants that fail to comply with any particular provision of the Rules, and the regulations, policies, and technical specifications of the Organization are subject to such liquidated damages and other provisions, including but not limited to termination of participation, as provided in the Rules.

---

Bearing in mind that not many banks are aware of MasterCard and Visa chargeback, I have to wonder how right they are that Maestro rules don't allow chargebacks in the UK. Trying to extract the information from the Maestro rules has confounded me. There are differing rules for the UK, but I can find nothing relating to special rules regarding UK chargebacks. UK Maestro spokesmen always add that there is no UK legal right to make a chargeback, but that is the case with all chargebacks.

Personally I would insist on making a chargeback and politely inform them that if the won’t do it you’ll take them to the FOS, though you’ll have to go through the card issuer’s complaints procedure first, as you normally have to.

Frankly the cost to any bank of handling a complaint that goes to the FOS should make them see sense, and if it did go to the FOS, it will only serve to publicise that their card is ‘second rate’ if they win. So any bank with a brain, would give in to you.

---

In summary - Maestro card holders may have a tougher job with their card issuer, particularly RBS and NatWest, which is especially annoying as it was one of their branches that arranged the merchant facility at the root of this problem.

Some will make a chargeback for you, and even Visa cardholders have to press hard. If you have the will and attitude, then you can point out the FOS statement about chargebacks and state that you wish to raise a formal complaint which you will take to the Ombudsman if they refuse to do as you ask.

The intention is that they will see sense and make the chargeback. If you take it to the FOS I cannot be certain of their judgement with Maestro cards, but taking the complaint to the FOS won’t cost you anything, just time and effort.
__________________________________________________________

As has been mentioned before, Natwest is part of RBS who gave Lapland NF Ltd the ability to take card payments anyway. So definitely don't give up on your refund. And re-read codger's post as well (quoted previously today).