HSBC Changing all Bank accounts

new2civvystreet

Inactive wrote: »

Nice idea, however it really doesn't make much difference what we say on here, their staff and a few others are so blinded by the spiel that HSBC dishes out, that they cannot, and never will see the wood from the tree's.


Well the staff may, when HSBC finally replace them with a machine, or move their jobs overseas.;)

I'd rather be working for the one solvent high street bank out there thank you very much

SimonM_2

I wish I'd have thought of looking on here when I first received my letter from HSBC about the changes from "HSBC Bank Account" to "HSBC Current Account Advanced" back in October.

Since then I've made numerous phonecalls to the main 08457 telephone banking number and also Direct Financial Services in the UK who the main number put me through to and have been more helpful but still not actually been able to help.

I've found numerous inaccuracies with the information provided by HSBC, and I believe their terms and conditions are simply incomplete (and hence invalid/void). To make things even worse, no one that I've spoken to at HSBC during the past 3 or so weeks has even got a copy of the terms and conditions that every single HSBC UK Current Account customer is bound by. How can that be the case?

Check for yourself - get the "Current Accounts - Terms and Conditions Effective from 1 September 2008 (1 December 2008 for all existing customers)" leaflet that came with the letter.

Page 9, Section 8 reads:

8. Interest
We calculate interest daily on the cleared balance and pay it monthly on the current accounts detailed on Page 24.

There is NO PAGE 24 in the booklet. It is a 12 page document.

Maybe less important, but also a bit concerning is:

Page 2, Section 1 reads:
1. Eligibility
1.1 Eligibility criteria apply to some of our current accounts as detailed in the table opposite. We will tell you what the elegibility criteria are (if any) when you enquire about or apply for a particular current account. You will not be able to apply if you fail to meet the eligability criteria.

There is NO TABLE opposite. There is a table on the front of the leaflet, which has an "Eligability criteria" column, but it only says "yes" in it next to Current Account Advanced.

I believe the Eligability Criteria is missing from the documentation supplied to HSBC customers.

The Terms and Condition leaflet doesn't give any details of the "£500 per month" that seems to be the key aspect of if you are eligable for the "Current Account Advanced" or if you only get the "Current Account". The full Terms and Conditions on the HSBC.co.uk website, which new customers would have applying to them, also makes no mention of "500". The only "500" I can find searching the PDF is on the back cover where it mentions "9500" for the number of branches.

I have repeatedly asked HSBC to tell me where the eligability criteria is detailed, in a printed form. They have been unable to provide this. They have told me various things, each of which has been different.

I've also queried the £500 per month aspect, and if it needs to be a Salary payment or not. I've not got a conclusive answer to this, and tonight ended up speaking with a manager (as per the HSBC complaints procedure which says you should speak to the manager of the department) who told me one thing, and when I challenged him on it (and it was completely the opposite of the person I'd been speaking with) then said it was unclear and said something a bit different. The third person I spoke to (who was in the UK) then told me something different again. I've been told it must be Salary (BACS payment), then it must be Salary or Bill Payment transfer, then that it could be cash over a counter. No one seems to have a clue.

It also isn't clear if it is £500 per month in to the HSBC Current Account, or if it can be £500 (or more) in to a mixture of HSBC-held accounts (eg: £400 in to a savings account and £100 in to the Current Account). Some members of staff have told me that's fine, others have said it isn't.

I also suggested that I could "withdraw £500 one day, and pay it back in the next" - one person said they couldn't comment on that, a couple of others have said I could, but if it has to be salary payment then surely that can't be done... so I need to know if it can or not. Because it'd be very easy to set up automated payments to take £500 out, and pay £500 back in again - which completely defeats the purpose of the eligability for the account doesn't it? :rolleyes:

HSBC's own terms and conditions state they must give at least 30 days notice of a change which is to my detriment (which the changes are, mainly due to the removal of credit interest). They have clearly issued this information more than 30 days before the December 1st date, which is fine, however they've not been able to provide me with full and accurate information which is able to enable me to decide one way or another if I'm able to accept the changes. I've told them this on the telephone, and as of tomorrow it'll be November 1st, which will mean that if they've still not given me (and everyone else who has queried this) the full and accurate information, and they then go on to change the accounts on December 1st, then they are in breach of their terms and conditions.

I'm not too sure what's going to happen if that does actually come about. I'd imagine they're "too big" and far too disorganised to be able to prevent it from happening and I'm fully expecting them to change my account over, despite me clearly telling them that I'm unable to accept (or decline) the changes to the T&C's until they've provided the info I require.

I'd suggest anyone who has had any queries or concerns about the account changes to get (back) in contact with HSBC and point these issues out, and tell them the same. I fully understand change happens, and if I can be given the full and accurante information then I can make an informed decision, but there's no way I'm going to agree to terms and conditions and changes to my bank account when I'm not being given all the facts and they won't give them in writing, epsecially when every single person I've spoken to has given me different information on the phone, which makes me think HSBC don't have the exact facts either.

Questions to ask HSBC:

* What is the eligability criteria for a Current Account Advanced
* Where exactly is this detailed, printed on paper (no good just being told it over the telephone, and the covering letter really isn't clear enough as to what it actually means, and seems to disagree with other HSBC communications)
* Does the £500 have to be in to the "Current Account Advanced" or can it be any account (eg: savings)
* Can you take £500 out and pay it back in and will that qualify as £500 being credited to your account?
* Where is Page 24 of the 12 page document?
* Where is the "table opposite" as stated on page 2?
* How often is the Current Account Advanced criteria reviewed (the letter says "reviewed annually", but I've been told monthly, 2 monthly, and that it'd happen "automatically each month" - so which one?)
* What happens if you miss a month or two of payments exceeding £500 (say for example your employer is unable to pay you, or you become unemployed during these difficult economic conditions that the country is facing)
* What happens if you pay £499.99 in to your account instead of £500 or more? (I've been told that wouldn't count as it isn't enough money, even if you were thousands of pounds in credit, yet someone who was heavily overdrawn and paid in £500 would be eligable... thanks so much HSBC!)
* What changes to your current HSBC Bank Account are there on the non-Advanced Current Account (no printed monthly paper statements, no cheque guarantee, no access to the Regular Saver account, etc...)
* If you take up the offer of the regular saver account, what happens if your "Current Account Advanced" becomes downgraded to a "Current Account"? Do you get to keep the Regular Saver account open? (the regular saver account is a 12 month account)

In the past few weeks I've moved to another bank and have already started transfering funds away, so I'm not too worried about leaving HSBC (I've been thinking about it for a while) but I'm just not happy with the way HSBC have introduced these changes and the fact they don't seem to have the answers and after weeks now still haven't been able to solve any of the issues I've put to them. Every one of their Current Account/Current Account Advanced customers in the UK would have received this same information, so it'd seem there's potential for quite big problems at HSBC if/when they wake up an spot they've messed up the T&C's.

Other than "get a life, move banks", I'd be interested in any advice that people have got about what I can do next, as I'm clearly getting nowhere with HSBC as they're running round in circles unsure of what they are actually doing, and I've clearly got more info (having actually read the paperwork) than the staff on the telephone, who don't even have the paperwork - they apparently can't even bring the letter up on screen, so don't know what I've been sent, yet they tell me it should be there...

ShelfStacker_3

I'll just quickly respond:

* What is the eligability criteria for a Current Account Advance
- £500 a month minimum paid into the current account

* Where exactly is this detailed, printed on paper (no good just being told it over the telephone, and the covering letter really isn't clear enough as to what it actually means, and seems to disagree with other HSBC communications)
- The letter which was sent to HSBC current account holders details it, and also the brochures in branch (presuming your local branch has the latest brochures on display, and they should do)

* Does the £500 have to be in to the "Current Account Advanced" or can it be any account (eg: savings)
- Has to be paid into the current account.

* Can you take £500 out and pay it back in and will that qualify as £500 being credited to your account?
- Possibly. I don't know.

* Where is Page 24 of the 12 page document?
- Dunno.

* Where is the "table opposite" as stated on page 2?
- Dunno.

* How often is the Current Account Advanced criteria reviewed (the letter says "reviewed annually", but I've been told monthly, 2 monthly, and that it'd happen "automatically each month" - so which one?)
- No idea, guessing that it is reviewed based on average monthly pay in - i.e. if you pay in £600pm for 10 months of the year your average pay in will be £500pm and you'll qualify. Don't know for certain.

* What happens if you miss a month or two of payments exceeding £500 (say for example your employer is unable to pay you, or you become unemployed during these difficult economic conditions that the country is facing)
- See above, probably works in averages

* What happens if you pay £499.99 in to your account instead of £500 or more? (I've been told that wouldn't count as it isn't enough money, even if you were thousands of pounds in credit, yet someone who was heavily overdrawn and paid in £500 would be eligable... thanks so much HSBC!)
- You don't get the benefits, it's stated quite clearly that you have to pay in £500 a month, no less - giving leeway on it, even by a few pence, would make a mockery of the whole thing (give one person benefits, then more people want them etc). Overdrawn position doesn't matter, £500pm is the only standard criterion

* What changes to your current HSBC Bank Account are there on the non-Advanced Current Account (no printed monthly paper statements, no cheque guarantee, no access to the Regular Saver account, etc...)
- Basically what you've listed, but you also can no longer get an HSBC credit card unless you also qualify for the Advance A/C.

* If you take up the offer of the regular saver account, what happens if your "Current Account Advanced" becomes downgraded to a "Current Account"? Do you get to keep the Regular Saver account open? (the regular saver account is a 12 month account)
- Honestly don't know.

SimonM_2

Thanks very much for your reply (and "thanks" given too )

What I'm not happy with is that I'm not prepared to accept "probably" and "i think" from HSBC. I want it written in cast iron guaranteed proof exactly what the conditions and rules are. If HSBC can supply me with that, then fine, but so far they've not been able to. That's my issue with the whole thing - I'm just not prepared to make a decision on a changing of my account and legal T&C's that apply to it, when the information provided is incomplete and inaccurate.

ShelfStacker wrote: »

* What is the eligability criteria for a Current Account Advance
- £500 a month minimum paid into the current account

Although the letter and other paperwork sent to me don't specify "current account". It says "account(s)". It also doesn't give details as to if it can be cash or salary, which I feel needs to be confirmed by HSBC.

ShelfStacker wrote: »

* Where exactly is this detailed, printed on paper (no good just being told it over the telephone, and the covering letter really isn't clear enough as to what it actually means, and seems to disagree with other HSBC communications)
- The letter which was sent to HSBC current account holders details it, and also the brochures in branch (presuming your local branch has the latest brochures on display, and they should do)

I'm unable to visit my local branch as they're only open when I'm at work, and it isn't "local" (all the more reason why I've been wanting to change banks for a while...). The telephone call centres haven't been able to get this information posted out to me - surely they should have access to the same information, even if they need to request a branch to send a copy?

My letter does not give exact details of the eligibility. It mentions various bits throughout the letter, and I'm sure it generally covers the points, but it is very vague and doesn't actually give clear and accurate information - it certainly hasn't matched up with the information provided to me over the telephone, and that's the worry.

ShelfStacker wrote: »

* Does the £500 have to be in to the "Current Account Advanced" or can it be any account (eg: savings)
- Has to be paid into the current account.

Thanks. Again, this (that it has to be the current account) isn't actually detailed anywhere in the paperwork I've received.

ShelfStacker wrote: »

* Can you take £500 out and pay it back in and will that qualify as £500 being credited to your account?
- Possibly. I don't know.

I think customers could, but would need to know before accepting (or declining) the changes. Setting up automated payments every month would be particularly easy, and £500 out of my account for a few days would have no impact at all - especially if it's going to another bank and back again.

ShelfStacker wrote: »

* Where is Page 24 of the 12 page document?
- Dunno.

* Where is the "table opposite" as stated on page 2?
- Dunno.

And until HSBC can provide that information, I can't accept the T&C's.

ShelfStacker wrote: »

* How often is the Current Account Advanced criteria reviewed (the letter says "reviewed annually", but I've been told monthly, 2 monthly, and that it'd happen "automatically each month" - so which one?)
- No idea, guessing that it is reviewed based on average monthly pay in - i.e. if you pay in £600pm for 10 months of the year your average pay in will be £500pm and you'll qualify. Don't know for certain.

* What happens if you miss a month or two of payments exceeding £500 (say for example your employer is unable to pay you, or you become unemployed during these difficult economic conditions that the country is facing)
- See above, probably works in averages

Although it's not actually detailed. Maybe 99.9% of people don't care how it's worked out, but I do. I want to know the exact details of how often it's reviewed and on what basis. I don't need to know that someone called Bob in the local branch is going to sit at his pc looking through a huge excel sheet, just the rules that apply to how they check if I'm eligible or not for the account that I'm apparently getting from December 1st.

ShelfStacker wrote: »

* What happens if you pay £499.99 in to your account instead of £500 or more? (I've been told that wouldn't count as it isn't enough money, even if you were thousands of pounds in credit, yet someone who was heavily overdrawn and paid in £500 would be eligable... thanks so much HSBC!)
- You don't get the benefits, it's stated quite clearly that you have to pay in £500 a month, no less - giving leeway on it, even by a few pence, would make a mockery of the whole thing (give one person benefits, then more people want them etc). Overdrawn position doesn't matter, £500pm is the only standard criterion

Understood. I was more using it as a way to illustrate my point - I explained this to the person at HSBC I was speaking with. My point was that I've got a very good balance on my account which has been at least a few thousand pounds in credit for many years now, and have never touched my overdraft for probably 10 years, so I can't see how I'm getting any benefit from the new account and I think I'm only losing out. The regular saver account doesn't appeal to me as it's limited to £250/month being paid in, and can't take a lump sum payment to open it. It's also a fixed 12 month account and I'd rather have instant access without any penalty.

ShelfStacker wrote: »

* What changes to your current HSBC Bank Account are there on the non-Advanced Current Account (no printed monthly paper statements, no cheque guarantee, no access to the Regular Saver account, etc...)
- Basically what you've listed, but you also can no longer get an HSBC credit card unless you also qualify for the Advance A/C.

Hmm, that is a bit worrying. I asked about my HSBC Credit Card the other week and was told that I would be able to keep that no matter if I dropped down to the non-Advanced account, or simply had no account with HSBC (eg: if I decided to close my account). Are you saying that's not actually the case, and I'd lose my credit card? Again, this isn't detailed anywhere from what I can tell.

ShelfStacker wrote: »

* If you take up the offer of the regular saver account, what happens if your "Current Account Advanced" becomes downgraded to a "Current Account"? Do you get to keep the Regular Saver account open? (the regular saver account is a 12 month account)
- Honestly don't know.

Which again, I'd need to know before taking it out.

As I say, thanks very much for your answers. I'm hoping HSBC can actually help me and keep my custom, but in the 3 or so weeks since I got the letter and have been in contact with them they've just dug deeper and deeper in to a hole and really don't seem to be improving things. Do I write to HSBC's head office to get them to clear it up? Or to my local branch? Or does it need to be refered to someone "above" HSBC who can step in - I simply don't know. Really I just want someone at HSBC to say "we've messed up, we'll get it sorted for you and your account change has been postponed until we've sorted it" (which I'd suggest might be something they need to do for everyone, based on the incomplete T&C's)

Inactive

So, even the HSBC Staff don't know the answers to your questions, what hope is there for us ordinary customers?:eek:

ahai1

Of course not inactive. As for the poster with concerns my advise file a complaint throught the Ombudsman who will then forward to HSBC who should then get a reply. That is the way the students have found of getting a reply.

Here is the link. http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

BTW I will also file one if you were to write a general complaint.

How it works is that you complain to the Ombudsman who then forwards it to HSBC who then have to reply.

BIGGER_THAN_THE_GAME

If its any help, I switched my current a/c from HSBC a few months ago after being with them for 18 years. Separated only by a year with NatWest, some ten years ago.

I still have my stakeholder pension with them, although I only pay in approximately £100 a month.

Now I currently use my HSBC a/c for betting transaction only. This exceeds at least £500 a month, possibly even £1000 a month.

They have written to me saying I qualify for a Premier account, as long as keep paying in more than £1000 a month.

Obviously this my mean that are looking at records several months ago, or that making numerous transactions can qualify.

ShelfStacker_3

SimonM wrote: »

Hmm, that is a bit worrying. I asked about my HSBC Credit Card the other week and was told that I would be able to keep that no matter if I dropped down to the non-Advanced account, or simply had no account with HSBC (eg: if I decided to close my account). Are you saying that's not actually the case, and I'd lose my credit card? Again, this isn't detailed anywhere from what I can tell.

No, you can keep your credit card, and I've heard nothing to the contrary. The £500pm rule only applies to new applications (they get automatically rejected if the customer doesn't meet or isn't willing to meet the criteria).

To be honest, I feel a few of these questions come a bit out of left field, as many of them rely on taking interpretations upon things which are obviously intended to be taken at face value, and the page numbers of specific tables in a booklet (which could be anything - the table could have been moved from page 24 to the front of the booklet after the text was written - it's possible).

If you wanted a definite answer to your concerns, I would personally write head office and ask about them - I'm sure they would be happy to oblige, if only to keep your custom. Writing the Ombudsman, however (as ahai suggested) is a ridiculous idea, simply because this isn't even close to being within the FOS' remit.

ahai1

Things like terms and condictions are part of the job of the Ombudsman. If you are not getting all the paperwork then it is not out of the question. Call me old fashioned but I perfer getting all the T&C paperwork and all that.

As for writing to head office it has been discussed elsewhere in the forum that head office ignores people.

ShelfStacker_3

ahai1 wrote: »

Things like terms and condictions are part of the job of the Ombudsman. If you are not getting all the paperwork then it is not out of the question. Call me old fashioned but I perfer getting all the T&C paperwork and all that.

The thing is, he has all the paperwork, or it's within easy reach. The problem lies in the eligibility criteria not being expressly disclosed in that paperwork, and some of the references to sections and page numbers being unclear. Which is fair enough, he is entitled to have it clear in his mind, which is why I advised him to contact head office if he'd like a full explanation, as they'd be best placed to give him one.

As for writing to head office it has been discussed elsewhere in the forum that head office ignores people.

In all cases? Really?

Inactive wrote:

So, even the HSBC Staff don't know the answers to your questions, what hope is there for us ordinary customers?

If that's referring to me, could I please point out that I am not sales staff and at any rate it is a mite unfair to expect all HSBC staff members to be intricately versed in not only the technicalities of how systems operate, but also familiar down to the page number and clause level of terms and conditions booklets?