Ways to stop overseas sales calls discussion

Paddy_Landau

joef6283 wrote: »

Having spoken to B.T. they say there is nothing they can do, as the calls are from out of the country [international, out of area, number unavailable].

In addition, many callers use VOIP, which is why you get caller-ID numbers that appear to be UK-based but in fact do not exist.

An example is one that I received yesterday apparently from 02120030050, but if you ring it, the number is not recognised.

I asked the caller for his telephone number, and he replied, "123456789 10."

"Um…" I said. "What is your address?"

He replied, "Alpha bravo charlie delta echo…" all the way down to "zulu".

I asked him, "Is this a joke?"

"Yes," he said.

I hung up. What a banana!

rickbonar

Dave_C wrote: »

Look in this forum post 9 firms in 5 years and no fines.

Classic victim blaming, they try to shift the blame on to the general public- it's our fault if we don't complain enough.

The complaints process is long and tedious (I've been through it a couple of times) and as the info shows, pointless.

Dave

Thank you Dave

(see post #324)


I propose a number of measures as a starter to this menace………..


· Firstly all premium rate calls to be made illegal.
· Secondly all cold calling marketing calls to be illegal.
· This of should also cover unsolicited calls of any form “surveys” etc.
· Finally BT or whatever telco that allows scam calls through, foreign calls centres or computer dialers etc. to pay in full for the costs of any monies stolen.
· Whether via textback whatever has taken the victims money and indeed BT etc to bar by law any number the customer requests free of charge to the customer.

We employ the government………..so why are they not doing what we require?

Paddy_Landau

rickbonar wrote: »

· Firstly all premium rate calls to be made illegal.

No way! I use services that make use of premium rate numbers — to save me money! (Take a look at MSE's Call Checker as an example.)

rickbonar wrote: »

· Secondly all cold calling marketing calls to be illegal.
· This of should also cover unsolicited calls of any form “surveys” etc.

Unfortunately, that will stop only the companies that operate legally and within the UK, and they already honour the TPS. It won't stop companies operating from outside the UK or that do not obey the law. In other words, it will make hardly any difference.

rickbonar wrote: »

· Finally BT or whatever telco that allows scam calls through, foreign calls centres or computer dialers etc. to pay in full for the costs of any monies stolen.

That would be lovely... but how do you propose that BT, Virgin and all the other operators identify scam phone calls? If you were BT, how would you implement that? It would be like getting Royal Mail to refund you for any scam you fell for if it was sent through the mail.

rickbonar wrote: »

· Whether via textback whatever has taken the victims money and indeed BT etc to bar by law any number the customer requests free of charge to the customer.

Nice idea: create a list to bar numbers. My Panasonic phone comes with a built-in bar list (it sends an engaged signal to people calling from that number), but it is already full and I cannot add new numbers!

rickbonar

Paddy_Landau wrote: »

Originally Posted by rickbonar
· Firstly all premium rate calls to be made illegal.

No way! I use services that make use of premium rate numbers — to save me money! (Take a look at MSE's CallChecker as an example.)

Thanks for the comments Paddy! In reply to you:

I'm not sure that we share the same understanding of premium rate numbers?

What I meant by premium rate numbers are 090 , 0870, 0844 and variants.... meaning where BT in particular are forming specialised numbers for profit...sex lines, horoscopes, x factor voting, etc and these are nothing more than a way fleecing the public often who are absolutely unaware of the costs. Information lines etc should be no more than 1p per minute more than the standard rates.

Obviously 0800 numbers are OK and numbers that save you from paying over the odds too (these don’t have to be 0870s) which your quote seems to allude to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickbonar
· Secondly all cold calling marketing calls to be illegal.
· This of should also cover unsolicited calls of any form “surveys” etc.


Unfortunately, that will stop only the companies that operate legally and within the UK, and they already honour the TPS. It won't stop companies operating from outside the UK or that do not obey the law. In other words, it will make hardly any difference.

Any company cold calling is unwelcome by the vast majority of people at home.

You make an important point about companies that operate from outside the UK but from personal experience I notice that a lot of marketing calls although outside the UK are on behalf of UK companies that are using this as a loophole. The TPS is at best weak and at worst may actually act as an ally to the marketing callers.

It can and would make a difference if your telephone line supplier used its computerised exchanges to filter out unwanted calls


Quote:

Originally Posted by rickbonar
· Finally BT or whatever telco that allows scam calls through, foreign calls centres or computer dialers etc. to pay in full for the costs of any monies stolen.

That would be lovely... but how do you propose that BT, Virgin and all the other operators identify scam phonecalls? If you were BT, how would you implement that? It would be like getting Royal Mail to refund you for any scam you fell for if it was sent through the mail.

The members of the public can created a blacklist and a whitelist of callers they want. Maybe an addition of a special button with a spam/scam alert on the phone to feedback to the phone line provider to in future block the call emanating from this particular number or source.

Truecall for example has some interesting features to do similar and these could be adopted or indeed the phone companies could include the truecall software in their systems, obviously under licence.

Scams including the now infamous computer diallers and even dodgy systems like isdn that BT themselves flogged a few years back should be refunded at your phone operators expense ….But then the new proposed premium rate law would prevent them from having to pay – so they’ll be happy with that too. Anything charged via your phonebill in effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickbonar
· Whether via textback whatever has taken the victims money and indeed BT etc to bar by law any number the customer requests free of charge to the customer.

Nice idea: create a list to bar numbers. My Panasonic phone comes with a built-in bar list (it sends an engaged signal to people calling from that number), but it is already full and I cannot add new numbers!

If your Panasonic phone can do this surely BT, Virgin or other telcos with their advanced phone networks computer & screening hardware and software can do this to an infinite degree. (and they do already :- at a price).

I believe this should enforced by law and as a standard feature of a phone package for free.

Perhaps people wanting to have cold calls, can pay an extra fee to do so!

Paddy_Landau

rickbonar wrote: »

I'm not sure that we share the same understanding of premium rate numbers? ...

I mean the same numbers as you do. In the link I gave you, you will see that it is cheaper to call some destinations using such numbers instead of your telecom provider. Teletop is one that I have often used.

I think that you are using a blanket statement to say, "these are nothing more than a way fleecing the public". Sometimes, yes, I would agree; those "lotteries" where you "win" a prize are an example. But other times, no; the costs to X Factor were properly and clearly advertised, and people who chose to use them were willingly part of self-entertainment.

rickbonar wrote: »

The TPS is at best weak and at worst may actually act as an ally to the marketing callers.

Yes. When I registered with TPS, I had a sudden spate of new calls over the next couple of months!

rickbonar wrote: »

The members of the public can created a blacklist and a whitelist of callers they want...

Nice idea, and I would support that.

However, that still does not answer how the telecom companies would be able to filter out scams. As fast as you blacklist a scammer's number, he will use a new one. The VOIP numbers in particular do not have to be correct, or even real numbers. That's how you sometimes are called from, say, 000000. In theory, you could even one day find yourself being called from your own number!

rickbonar

Paddy_Landau wrote: »

I mean the same numbers as you do. In the link I gave you, you will see that it is cheaper to call some destinations using such numbers instead of your telecom provider. Teletop is one that I have often used.

I think that you are using a blanket statement to say, "these are nothing more than a way fleecing the public". Sometimes, yes, I would agree; those "lotteries" where you "win" a prize are an example. But other times, no; the costs to X Factor were properly and clearly advertised, and people who chose to use them were willingly part of self-entertainment.


Yes. When I registered with TPS, I had a sudden spate of new calls over the next couple of months!


Nice idea, and I would support that.

However, that still does not answer how the telecom companies would be able to filter out scams. As fast as you blacklist a scammer's number, he will use a new one. The VOIP numbers in particular do not have to be correct, or even real numbers. That's how you sometimes are called from, say, 000000. In theory, you could even one day find yourself being called from your own number!

Yes it is a blanket statement and I'm personally of the belief that premium numbers in whatever form, have been nothing but trouble ever since they first brought them in.
All the chargeable calls from horoscopes to X factor are padded out or rigged in some or another. Remember the debacle about late night TV phone shows and some of the scams that were happening ... they ranged from guessing a box with a large prize money sum (even if by some miracle someone got it they'd shuffle it to another box behind the scenes).
You know the type of thing...

Some people need protection from themselves and all this very dubious phone competition stuff is promoting the attitude of the bankers/MPs/tax avoiders/coke sniffing tv stars/ rip off britain state that we're all doing now.....everyone going about ripping off each other ... and they all justify what they're doing like polititions such as Ed Balls flipping as houses as fast he can then trying to moralise about benefit fiddles.

Even a 1p a minute for an info line would yield handsome profits.. so why is £1.50 per minute.

A lot of TV company phone competions were rigged too, these items where they asked where are the 2012 olympics being held: A: Moscow B: London C: Mars
Are purely to sidestep the lottery regulations... and really a way of TV companies no matter how bad the show is to make easy money.
Consider someone like Simon Cowell whose fortune has been made quickly by this simple method... you have to ask just how much have BT and ITV made too?
Hughie Green had talent shows where you sent in a postcard, I'm not advocating that again but a phone vote that either charges the same as standard or a 1p more...

TPS we agree on... the IOC as Dave pointed is supposed to fine errant companies but as yet not one has been!
Both organisations that are smokescreens to allow this to continue and actually hamper any real complaints or attempts to properly deal with the publics wishes.

As for the final point you make about filtering the scammers numbers... although they may be invisible to my caller display and CLIC ... they aren't to the telecoms companies and Police.
Now just think if these weren't traceable then any conman or murderer could frame any one else in their crimes....
Just something to think about... a hoaxer or terrorist could phone out the fire brigade or Police and have his number displayed as 999 according to that...

Now if that's true, then I think we should all be very very concerned.

Paddy_Landau

rickbonar wrote: »

... all this very dubious phone competition stuff is promoting the attitude of the bankers/MPs/tax avoiders/coke sniffing tv stars/ rip off britain state that we're all doing now...

You are kidding, right?

rickbonar wrote: »

Now just think if these weren't traceable then any conman or murderer could frame any one else in their crimes...

Well, that's a bit extreme, but VOIP numbers are indeed untraceable unless the telecom somehow happens to keep a record of the IP address from which the telephone call is coming. AFAIK, that isn't possible because of the way it routes through the telephone network, though I may be wrong.

rickbonar wrote: »

Now if that's true, then I think we should all be very very concerned.

Good point! Time to get concerned.

Dave_ja_vu

You need a phone with caller ID so you can see the number and you need to have this as part of your phone package, sometimes you need to add it possibly £1 extra a month on your bill but its worth every penny. Then buy an air horn (Aerosol football type) from Ebay about £2. Then the next time you get a call from these A**holes give them a nice long blast down the phone, I think they will get the message and the is nothing they can do about it especially in India (Oh dear it must be a fault on my line). But do make sure you do recognize the number as a Telepest, some how I don't think they will bother you again

Paddy_Landau

Dave_ja_vu wrote: »

You need a phone with caller ID...

I do have caller ID, but it doesn't stop them from calling. Ignoring the number just has the telephone ringing incessantly throughout the day as they try to figure out at what time you will answer. The call-bar on my phone is a godsend.

Dave_ja_vu wrote: »

... buy an air horn ... give them a nice long blast down the phone

What you are suggesting is illegal and potentially harmful. Remember that the caller is just an employee doing his job, often in a poor country where it's the only job he can get. It's the business-owners whom you need to target.

rickbonar

My friend had a call just yesterday (yes they're on TPS) the number on caller display started 0404 ... and it is probably a fake caller id.

It was a recorded message ...this time an english accent (often american) "you have won a prize blah blah ..press 9 to collect"

I guess if someone presses 9 then it connects you to a premium number at £1.50 or more per minute. And your phone company (BT Virgin etc) collects the prize from your phone bill later when you pay the bill.

School kids, the elderly, mentally ill and the gullible could easily be taken by this.

Granted a loud klaxon horn down the line may deter some foriegn live callers... but they might again take revenge by putting your number onto even more sucker lists.

The scenerio above wouldn't make any difference though.