First credit debt collection :(

RAS

cocker100 wrote: »

I have a couple of questions:

Do they legally own the debt or are they acting for Goldfish?

This is what you find out by requesting the CCA

Who will have the CCA, 1st Credit or Goldfish?

Does not matter, if 1st credit are pursuing you, then they have to produce it.

If they dont have it, can they enforce this debt in court?

Not a cat in hell's chance. Ytthey could not even enforce a CCJ unless they have it.

When I first took out the card (when it was Morgan Stanley), I simply filled in an appliacation form I found in a magazine, waited a couple of weeks and then got the card, without signing anything else. Does this work in my favour?

If the application form was devised to comply with the law it would be lawful, but vast numbers of "CCA"s that are returned by DCAs do not meet legal requirements and are invalid. They are applications forms and not enforceable

Hope that helps.

RAS

Hi

What is required for an enforceable CCA - nicked from CAG


IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)
PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations
(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

**What do we mean by unenforceable?
In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.
Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?
When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.
When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

The Prescribed Terms are these

A Amount of credit
A term stating the amount of credit

B Repayments
A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-
(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest
A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement
D Credit limit
This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

---

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

BC and D Apply

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement
A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

A and B apply

For a Hire Agreement

B is Applicable

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.
Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

debtman2007

Received this letter this morning. al always any advice is appreciated.



Request for copy sgreement

We refer to your recent communication requesting a copy of teh revelant agreement.

The documnet you have requsted is retained by our client. we will therefore advise them of your request and arrange for teh document to be sent to you as soon as possible.

Should your request also include the below documents, please be advised of the following:

Deed of Assignmnet - we would refer you to section 136 of the LAw of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is notified of the assignmnet of the debt in writing and not a copy of the Deed itself.

Copy statements - there is a charge of £10.00 for this information.

On receipt of teh copy agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediately to arrange settlement of teh debt.

please call this soffice should you wish to dicuss this matter

shinyhead

Hi DM2007,
If it were me getting that letter I would take it that they are not likely to be able to produce one. The rest is the usual crap. It seems when a DCA take a debt over they only get basic details such as name address account number, balance etc. In reality they should have at least copies of everything the original creditor has on you.

There is of course always the chance that one does turn up but once again if it were me I'd be now counting down ready to send off the next letter and considering stopping payments.

Did you get notification in writing from Citi that you were being passed on to Worst?

RAS

Hi DM20007

Fairly standard if a bit misleading.

This is the - OH !!!! we do not have it on file, let's pray the original creditor has it - letter.

The stuff about the deed of assignment is sort of Ok as they have to have it but need only prove that you were sent a notification at this stage. If they went to court they need to produce the deed. If you were not sent a notification or it was sent to the wrong place, that could be relevant in some cases.

Copies of statements (long lists of transactions) may be £10 but you are entitled to a statement of your account (what is owed) at any time. If you want the whole lists of transaction plus all sorts, you need only do a SAR anyway, which costs £10.

If they ring you again point out that you are not responding until they produce the CCA.

And certainly do not ring them.

pepe2008

Hello Debtman, DeepinDebt, RAS, Cocker etc,etc!!

The plot thickens, in a previous post I mentioned that I phoned Citi ( now passed to 1st Cretins ) and I have since been sent a letter as follow up detailing the charge for SAR and CCA requests.....so it seems that 1st probably dont hold the correct paperwork!

It seems that asking for aCCA from these parasites is a bit like poking a wasp nest with a stick...so I'm going straight to the 'horses mouth' ( not its *rse ) and making the request to Citi, and asking for proof of the Assignment.

Deepin Debt....sounds like 1st are frightened of being asked to prove their entitlement by saying that if they provide CCA then they are expecting you to repay it asap!!! ****ers!

Yes, Debtman, make your complaint to the lovely Audrey, you'll get a reply asking you to 'justify' it....then ignore her, you'll have made your point.

Cocker, you're already doing all you can, dont go starving yourselves for these parasites. Tell them, and your dmp, that you were frightened/bullied/harassed into making the extra payments but as you wre already doing ALL YOU CAN then you can only pay the original amount being sent via dmp. If 1st Cretins get narked then they are breaching the OFT Guidelines again. Is your dmp FREE?

How about we ALL mail Audrey Shim Quee a copy of the OFT Guidelines? Download a copy at www.oft.gov and follow the links. Anon of course.

Lifes a !!!!!, and she works at 1st Cretins, I know cos she phoned me!!!:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

debtman2007

RAS wrote: »

Hi DM20007

Fairly standard if a bit misleading.

This is the - OH !!!! we do not have it on file, let's pray the original creditor has it - letter.

The stuff about the deed of assignment is sort of Ok as they have to have it but need only prove that you were sent a notification at this stage. If they went to court they need to produce the deed. If you were not sent a notification or it was sent to the wrong place, that could be relevant in some cases.

Copies of statements (long lists of transactions) may be £10 but you are entitled to a statement of your account (what is owed) at any time. If you want the whole lists of transaction plus all sorts, you need only do a SAR anyway, which costs £10.

If they ring you again point out that you are not responding until they produce the CCA.

And certainly do not ring them.

I already have the notice of assignment from Citi. I guess i need to wait for the CCA from Citi too.

Still never recieved the letter sent 1st credit sent on 28/08/08 (supposedly)

debtman2007

Sandypepper wrote: »

Have today had the 'pleasure' of a telephone conversation with First Credit after Goldfish sold my debt on to them. I was threatened with bankruptcy, bailiffs, court action, asked if I could borrow the money from somewhere to pay them and finally when I had been reduced to tears told they would be passing it to their solicitors. Was stunned because with the help of Payplan had established informal arrangements with creditors and eliminated the harrassing phonecalls however a phonecall to Payplan reassured me that I was not alone in receiving these bullyboy tactics from First Credit,now feel confident again. I cannot praise Payplan enough for the free help and support at the end of the phone.

Exactly the same happened to me. You will get great advice and support on here. Believe me you are not alone.
I will be recording all phone calls from now on.

debtman2007

two more days and im sure the phone calls will start

Sandypepper

2nd call from them today a woman this time telling me 'we need to resolve the problem' I told her I was only going to deal by mail and she stated they are a telephone based company and would not respond to any letters should be interesting! Will keep you posted.