Being made to go out for food after work

surreysaver

tomstickland wrote: »

I go out drinking with work colleagues and we'd see a night out eating pizza and talking about work as a bit of fun.

In work's time yes. In my own time, no.

surreysaver

tomstickland wrote: »

If anyone dislikes their employers enough to describe this as "blackmail" and "don't let them get away with it" then I suggest moving jobs.

It is not about disliking an employer. It is about the employer crossing the line with what they can and cannot do with their employees.

surreysaver

Kimitatsu wrote: »

Whilst not attending is not in itself a case for redundancy, not being a part of the team or not fitting in can be, probably not in so many words but why put yourself in that position in the first place?

Why do you have to work in your own time to be a team player? You can be an excellent team player by being good at your job in your employer's time. Discriminatory working practices such as this should be made illegal. What time will the evening be finishing - will everyone be having at least 12 hours off before the next morning? Will the employer be ensuring that everyone gets home safely, even those that get drunk?

therealdessie

Kimitatsu wrote: »

Being honest RBK you will be remembered more for NOT going than you if you do go. Even if you go and eat a lettuce leaf then the new management will notice and it will be remembered.

Very good point Kimi. I've worked in places where there were a lot of social outings which I enjoyed, including where we talked about work - I enjoyed it because it gave me a chance to get to know the people I worked with better and to let my hair down with a different group of people.

I've also worked in places where I actively avoided those nights out because the office was so political I knew people would group together and make the whole thing a pretty miserable affair.

However as you say not going tells the management two things: 1) you maybe consider yourself too good to go out with your work colleagues and don't want to get to know them, and 2) you won't put yourself out for your employer. The argument that you don't have to just doesn't wash in this day and age - any job where you want to succeed requires a degree of sacrifice, and if that means giving up an evening to have a little bit of pizza (I'm biased as it's my favourite food) and a laugh with some of the guys from work... well, it could be worse.

surreysaver

therealdessie wrote: »

The argument that you don't have to just doesn't wash in this day and age

I disagree. In this day and age, employers are expected / encouraged to improve work / life balance. In this day and age, I think it totally out of order that employers expect staff to go to these things. It could even be considered illegal where someone (particularly a female who could use indirect discrimination) has caring responsibilities.

Sugar_Coated_Owl

Don't get me wrong I do usually attend the socials even though it's always going for a meal which I really hate but nevertheless I attend. I think there is only one I missed which I had a valid reason for missing.

If I was being paid for my time I would be happy to attend these two particular socials. Just seems to me like they are opting to go for the cheap option by treating us to a pizza instead of using up works time and/or having to pay staff overtime. Basically it benefits them as normal work time is not interrupted and by buying pizza they don't have to spend anywhere near the amount it would cost to pay us for our time.

Yes I am probably going to end up attending as otherwise I'm going to look bad and missing out on important work stuff. I just strongly disagree on the way they are doing it.

ceridwen

therealdessie wrote: »

However as you say not going tells the management two things: 1) you maybe consider yourself too good to go out with your work colleagues and don't want to get to know them, and 2) you won't put yourself out for your employer. The argument that you don't have to just doesn't wash in this day and age - any job where you want to succeed requires a degree of sacrifice, and if that means giving up an evening to have a little bit of pizza (I'm biased as it's my favourite food) and a laugh with some of the guys from work... well, it could be worse.

Or - on the other hand - it could tell them that you actually have a life outside work. Possibly also that they dont pay you enough - as you have no option BUT to leave on time - because you need to get to a "second job" on time. There's also the point that if someone has a full-time job and some extra work on top (which could even be voluntary - running a Scout Group perhaps you know?) then they physically cant do that job and their other work and have a life generally without coming down physically ill - and then their employer wouldnt see them there at work at all until they recovered.

I've had to do "second jobs" before now - I had several at once at one point - on top of the full-time job. It wasnt because I was greedy for money either - my full-time employer just doesnt pay enough. In the end I was just getting so tired/fed-up with always working/not even able to eat properly that I stuck the whole "package" for just long enough to get out of debt and then chucked in the "second jobs". So - there were a few occasions when I wondered whether my employer was going to try taking a bit of my leisuretime - and they just had to be told they couldnt - as it just wasnt available for them to take - and it was their own fault for not paying me enough. (And - yes - I do put it politely when I say things like that. They are paying me for doing a decent job of work - which I do do. Beyond that - as long as I'm polite - well, its supposed to be a country where one has Free Speech and one does nothing wrong by expressing a perfectly legal and polite opinion.)

As regards voluntary work - over recent years I have noticed that it is more difficult to get people to do voluntary work - as they are just so busy/tired out from putting in extra time at paid work - so employers trying to grab peoples free time are sometimes affecting society as a whole by ensuring that there are less people available for voluntary work - and society as a whole is the worse for it.

ceridwen

razorbladekisses wrote: »

Don't get me wrong I do usually attend the socials even though it's always going for a meal which I really hate but nevertheless I attend. I think there is only one I missed which I had a valid reason for missing.

If I was being paid for my time I would be happy to attend these two particular socials. Just seems to me like they are opting to go for the cheap option by treating us to a pizza instead of using up works time and/or having to pay staff overtime. Basically it benefits them as normal work time is not interrupted and by buying pizza they don't have to spend anywhere near the amount it would cost to pay us for our time.

Yes I am probably going to end up attending as otherwise I'm going to look bad and missing out on important work stuff. I just strongly disagree on the way they are doing it.

And I'm still urging you not to go. If this info really is "important work stuff" then the employer needs for their staff to know it to do their job effectively and will have to ensure they know it one way or another - ie tell them in workhours.

By going when you know you shouldnt have to - it will come over anyway that you have been forced into going against your will. Voice of experience time! - you will be sitting there with a mutinous look on your face or visibly "miles away" deep in thought or drinking too much (and then saying something you shouldnt). Believe me - when someone is taking YOUR time for no pay - no matter how much you tell yourself to "behave" whilst there - the truth will out and you will say or do something "inappropriate" (well - they will think it is anyway:D ).

There is another way you could deal with this as well - also devious - and the only way I could personally guarantee I would "behave" myself if I were in a situation like that - because I was sitting there promising myself that I was going to take my time back by having a days "sick leave" and reclaiming my time that way. I know...I know....that doesnt sound good - but in this day and age employers are getting more and more devious at finding ways to cut the money they pay their employees one way or another (and if you dont think yours is - then take a look at your next cost-of-living rise - I would be willing to bet its actually a disguised paycut - ie less than inflation). I have certainly found that all employers have no qualms whatsoever about even physically cutting peoples pay whenever it suits them - but they find some devious way usually of doing it that just covers them for getting away with it.

mymatebob

razorbladekisses wrote: »

Thank you to everyone for their replies.

To clarify, the manager is not new, she has been there for 2.5 years. I am paid by the hour. These evenings out are not being paid. One staff member cannot attend for religious reasons and another isn't sure she can stay behind. All staff members tend to get along OK. Apart from one no one really gets on with the manager.

On the grand scheme of things I suppose 2 evenings out isn't going to kill me. I am just annoyed that we aren't being paid overtime. I just think they are sneaky by making it out to be some fun social evening eating pizza and talking about work.

How is the manager going to deal with the fact the possibly 2 (not including yourself) members of staff will not be attending this training briefing?
When will they get the required information?

LindsayO

I agree with the OP, that this is bad employment practice, but I also agree with the advise that she should go to the training evenings because of the current economic climate you don't want to stand out, which of course is why they can get away with this practice.

I totally sympathise with you. I hate working lunches and business meals. I work on a campus and there is a restuarant on campus and every so often we are required to go there for a working lunch. I have multiple food allergies and the last time I was there they served me a salad with pasta in it that I was allergic to, and so I asked for a replacement. When I was almost finished I noticed a piece of pasta hiding under a lettuce leaf. All they had done was scrape the pasta off the plate and re-serve it. Needless to say I was ill the next day. (and the next). So I know I can't trust them to take my allergy seriously. I've told my boss this and that I will not attend any more working lunches. so far its not been a problem