Made a shocking discovery today... what would you do?

tasha38

i'm not entirely sure about this but by law arent both parties in a marriage responsible for a debt? ive been divorced a long time now but back in the day i was told that i was just as responsible for my husbands debts as he was.... if this still holds i think you have a right to know how much your both in debt

tasha38

silvah_2

Hello everybody,

It's me again with an update.

Hubby and I had a rather strained chat last night about our finances but it did lead to some sort of conclusion. I think I put across 2 important things:

1. That he's currently in the dark about my business affairs, as much as I am in the dark about his finances, and we can either leave it that way, or have total openness, which I think (thank you Robert) is a much better foundation for a lasting, happy marriage.

2. That if he opened up to me about the finances it would have major benefits for him: I wouldn't ask him about it every so often, and I would be much happier. (This seemed to help A LOT.)

So I think our chat had at least some effect, and he ended up confessing that he didn't want to talk to me about the finances because whenever he'd done that in the past, it always ended up in arguments and recriminations, and he hates conflict. So I took the advice from lots of people here and promised him very seriously that I wouldn't be angry or judgemental.

Net result is we agreed to take all our assets and liabilities to an Independent Financial Advisor, to get some outside help. And, just to be fair, I agreed to take him with me to a meeting with my accountant and talk about the business' finances.

It's a good result, but I can't help but feel slightly uneasy about it. Don't know why.

But thanks again for all your support and advice, it has really helped.

elona

I think I can guess why you are feeling uneasy - you are having to disclose business details which you feel is not siomething that is a problem as you have things under control - so that DH will come clean with matters that are your business and that you suspect really is a problem.

It has been wrapped up to look fair to him but is really not all that fair to you.

Sorry if that got a bit tangled.

mr218

are you wary that it will be a lot worse than you think it is. your husband seems to suggest that there is a an issue with his finances but he has not really ever said to you that he has a debt problem. my feeling is that there must be a problem and he must have some debts. otherwise he may have told you that there is no problem. he seems to be loathe to tell you how much the sum is.



however, you already know that there is about 3000 pounds in the barclaycard.

maybe he has a few other debts and nothing too drastic.

however, i must echo the feeling of the other poster (robert sterling) that it is strange that you are married and you dont even know how much your husband earns.

When i was going out with my husband initially, we were already very open with each other about money. i opened all his mail and he had the same access to mine (though he never really bothered to)

before we were married we used to manage our accounts on our own. but once we got married and moved into the same house, we decided that i had more time so i would look into finances. i have full access to all the accounts (his, mine, joint). since we have bought a new house and feeling a bit tight financially, i have started to keep a very detailed list of expenses and he tells me how much he has spent to the penny. and believe me it is not a chore or a burden. he prefers to just be updated say every month on how much we have saved, how much the cc payments are etc etc.

why are you both so reluctant to tell each other every detail. after all it is both your money. how do you plan for the future and decide what is important for both of you if you dont know how much you have in total.

if your marriage is great in all other respects, then you take the step and involve him fully in your finances. if he sees that there is nothign secret or awkward about being open about money, he will respond. tell him that the fact you dont know worries you more because now you are apprehensive about how dreadful it will be. instead if he just gave you a full overview about his financial situation, you can atleast know whether you have something to worry about or not.

silvah_2

Just to say - I do know how much he earns. And he knows how much I earn (although it varies from month to month.) We did work out a joint budget just after we got married, but it's only as the post arrived and I saw various Barclaycard and MBNA envelopes, etc, coming and going, that I started to wonder if I didn't have the full picture. Now I've realised that he keeps his savings and debts secret from me.

I think I'm uneasy about it because there is still the possibility that he might not tell me everything and I would be (in his eyes) none the wiser, and I'd be back to the shredder again. But at least it is progress and I think he accepts that perhaps it would be better if he did open up, but he admitted that he doesn't like to have his weaknesses exposed (very typical Y chromosome trait!)

mr218

you know your husband best. it is difficult to break out of habits. but as you say you are making progress and slowly getting to know more about his financial affairs. that is a good start.

i think your happiness is more important rather than having arguments or tensions about money. you just need to keep making more progress by going one step at a time.

good luck and i am sure in time everythign will be sorted (if indeed there is a problem)

Iona_Penny

I think you will feel so much better if you have more of the true picture about your (joint) overall finances. I say 'more' as I feel you yourself don't really believe you are going to be told everything (sorry if this is not the case.

My OH and I had a joint current account from before we were married and saving for a house deposit, and that holds true today; but I always 'did' the finances. Although he had total access he never really bothered ( and to a certain extent still trusts me to balance -or not! - the money.

However this meant when my cc spending got out of hand I hid the truth, tried to juggle the payments, and in the end gave up on even this and stuck my head in the sand.

He found out when a letter came from Leeds court! It was horrible and so much better when he knew so that we could start to sort it out. It wasn't easy and would have been so much better for him to know the true situation so much sooner.

The only thing I disagree with is mr218 about opening post. I think no one should ever open someone elses post, but that is not to say I don't expect to know what it is!! I used to squirrel my unopened white envelopes away (not even smart enough to destroy them!) but now the post is opened and left for the other to see. I ust feel it's a slippery slope to feel it's ok to intercept anothers letters.

Good luck with the new arrangements.

8pnoodles

I am pleased that he's admitted he didn't want to tell you because he thought you'd have a go at him. And to be fair that's mostly what us women do.

Men (generally) DO hate making us unhappy and think if they mess up the best thing to do is keep quiet. Add to that the fear of being shouted at and told you're incompetant, for a guy that's more than he's prepared to risk.

I'm slowly learning that guys (in the relationships I've been in anyway) want to be seen as the hero in our relationships, the ones to sort out the problems, to fix stuff when it goes wrong, to protect us. It's a really traditional view but I think it still exists. For him to say he's messed up is going to take away all the feelings he had of being the provider/hero/call it what you will, in the relationship. (Sorry quoting shamelessly there from Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus - love the book though, helpful on the best ways to communicate between the genders in a relationship.)

So I can see why it's so hard for him to tell you.

And I think you are really doing the right thing in leading by example and telling him about the business. I think that's a really good compromise.

Do you know why you are feeling uneasy? It's possibly because your relationship dynamic is about to shift. And that can be scary. But it's no bad thing. Relationships need to change to grow.

Again, wishing you continued good luck (and will hopefully sound less like a fortune cookie in future).

ffs

8pnoodles wrote:

I'm slowly learning that guys (in the relationships I've been in anyway) want to be seen as the hero in our relationships, the ones to sort out the problems, to fix stuff when it goes wrong, to protect us. It's a really traditional view but I think it still exists. For him to say he's messed up is going to take away all the feelings he had of being the provider/hero/call it what you will, in the relationship. (Sorry quoting shamelessly there from Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus - love the book though, helpful on the best ways to communicate between the genders in a relationship.)

A very accurate analysis.

ashmit

8pnoodles wrote:

I am pleased that he's admitted he didn't want to tell you because he thought you'd have a go at him. And to be fair that's mostly what us women do.

Speak for yourself!!!!!!!!! That's a gross generalisation and in my opinion is being really unfair to a lot of women. I'm not saying I never do it myself, but I really don't think it's helpful to imply that it's a direct result of having two X chromosones.

Men (generally) DO hate making us unhappy and think if they mess up the best thing to do is keep quiet. Add to that the fear of being shouted at and told you're incompetant, for a guy that's more than he's prepared to risk.

I'm slowly learning that guys (in the relationships I've been in anyway) want to be seen as the hero in our relationships, the ones to sort out the problems, to fix stuff when it goes wrong, to protect us. It's a really traditional view but I think it still exists. For him to say he's messed up is going to take away all the feelings he had of being the provider/hero/call it what you will, in the relationship. (Sorry quoting shamelessly there from Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus - love the book though, helpful on the best ways to communicate between the genders in a relationship.)

Oh, for crying out loud However many years of feminism has brough us this?

Sorry if I sound like I'm saying you're totally wrong, because in all honesty, I'm not. I promise! There are some men who think like this... mainly older ones these days, but younger ones too.. BUT, there are also women who think like this too.

I earn about 50% more than my DH and do all the household finances. I would have no patience at all with someone who hid things from me for fear I would shout. don't get me wrong, I don't think treating your partner like a child is useful on either side, but you should both be able to know your partner will a) act responsibly and b) respect you. And that if you make a mistake, they won't go off it at you. If you keep making the same mistake again and again, that's maybe different, but doesn't seem to be the case here.

Having said that, I just asked him (for the sake of a balanced opinion) and he said most men probably do think like that. I still don't think it's any excuse though.

I can't imagine anyone ever thinking they had to provide for me. I'm too fiercely independent. When we have kids, maybe, but that's different. But I think he'll be the main caregiver. We could afford to lose his salary, just, but not mine. I earn peanuts, really, but still far more than him.