Changes to BT 1280

System

Don't indirect access codes tell the exchange to route the call to a specified provider's switch? Then it's up to that provider what network it uses to forward the call. (And, of course, that provider is responsible for billing the caller and paying the network.) For example, Sky once used Thus, but is currently using BT Wholesale's incompetently or malevolently designed WCLI offering. Finarea uses, I guess, whatever network is dumping excess capacity on the market cheapest that week or hour.

The asymmetry is that BT Wholesale, incompetently or malevolently, designed WCLI without including provision for a 'BT' (don't know whether that means BT Wholesale or Openreach) exchange to deal correctly with a call prefixed by 1280, given that there is no 'BT' switch it can route the call to.

There is a further asymmetry that in theory BT Retail can decide to route calls by, for example, Thus, but in practice, I assume, BT Retail always uses BT Wholesale.

JustPassingBy

YoungNick wrote: »

Don't indirect access codes tell the exchange to route the call to a specified provider's switch? Then it's up to that provider what network it uses to forward the call.

This appears no different from saying

JustPassingBy wrote:

Indirect access codes switch the call to the alternative provider's network

so I think I can agree with you. This is how Ofcom views indirect access:

Indirect Access: where a customer establishes a connection with a particular operators network by dialling a short code to switch through the network on which his exchange line terminates. Such calls are usually billed by the Indirect Access operator.

YoungNick wrote: »

The asymmetry is that BT Wholesale, incompetently or malevolently, designed WCLI without including provision for a 'BT' (don't know whether that means BT Wholesale or Openreach) exchange to deal correctly with a call prefixed by 1280, given that there is no 'BT' switch it can route the call to.

You are authenticated at the exchange as a Sky customer entitled to use the BT network and liable for billing by Sky. The signalling carries this information. The network knows nothing about your relationship with BT Retail (you can only have one service provider) or 18185 for that matter. It is intelligent enough to know trying get a call billed to any other provider on the same network is futile as the correct authentication cannot be provided. To be billed by BT Retail you would have to log off and come on with your BT Retail credentials.

1899, 18866 and 18185 ask to switch to Connect Telecom's network. That's ok, it's a different network from the one you are on. Authentication can take place at the gateway.

Incompetence or malevolence on BT's part doesn't seem justified. Is there any type of network anywhere which allows you to change your identity on that network midstream, as it were?

System

I disagree. A customer who is being caught by this swindle
(a) can have only one provider of his physical link to an exchange, ie the wires owned by Openreach. In his case, that provider is BT Retail.
(b) BT Retail currently sells that access bundled with, at least, unlimited calls at weekends to 01 02 and 03 numbers. In principle, BT Retail can use any network it likes to transmit those calls, but in practice, afaik, it always uses BT Wholesale.
(c) The customer can have any number of other providers of calls, who can use any network(s) they like. In his case, one of those other providers is Sky, and the deal he signed up to was that Sky would be the default provider if and only if he did not, by using an indirect access code, specify another provider, notably including BT Retail.
(d) Sky has currently chosen to deliver the calls entrusted to it using BT Wholesale's WCLI.
(d) When the customer initiates a call, the exchange knows that the 'line rental' is billed by BT Retail, and that calls are to be routed to, and billed by, Sky unless the customer has used an indirect access code.
(e) If the customer uses, say, 18185, the exchange routes the call to Finarea's switch. If Finarea recognises the CLI as a Finarea customer's, it forwards and bills the call, and pays BT Wholesale for initiating it, and others for forwarding and terminating it. If Finarea doesn't recognise the CLI, then Finarea's switch plays its 'Sorry, you're not signed up to 18185' message, and, I assume, BT Wholesale bills Finarea for originating the (abortive) call.
(f) It was BT Wholesale's responsibility to design WCLI so that 1280 would work. I agree that this is technically different from ensuring that 18185 will work, but that is BT Wholesale's problem, not the customer's.
(g) By marketing WLCI without provision for 1280 to work, BT Wholesale is inducing a breach of the contract between the customer and BT Retail. The customer can, inter alia, sue BT Wholesale to recover the cost of weekend calls he instructed BT Retail to carry, which have been wrongly diverted to Sky. The court would, in my opinion, accept that BT Retail's new purported condition 'we'll ignore 1280 at our whim' is unfair, and therefore void under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations.

dzug1

YoungNick wrote: »

(c) The customer can have any number of other providers of calls, who can use any network(s) they like. In his case, one of those other providers is Sky, and the deal he signed up to was that Sky would be the default provider if and only if he did not, by using an indirect access code, specify another provider, notably including BT Retail.

Not so sure about this. No dealings with Sky, but with talktalk (another of the offenders) you signed up with a condition that you made ALL your calls through them. So indirect access calls banned. They never actually enforced it - probably had no means of doing so other than terminating your contract - but it was there.

Chrysalis

I rang sky yesterday to cancel sky sports and they started talking to me about cancelling sky talk. They asked why I left and I explained why. They seem baffled as if it wasnt an important reason to leave but I made my point clear.

System

dzug1 wrote: »

Not so sure about this. No dealings with Sky, but with talktalk (another of the offenders) you signed up with a condition that you made ALL your calls through them. So indirect access calls banned. They never actually enforced it - probably had no means of doing so other than terminating your contract - but it was there.

Sky's conditions include a threat that they may block indirect access (and this threat is in my opinion unfair and therefore void). In practice Sky do not yet attempt to apply it. Talktalk apparently do. Afaik, Ofcom has never explained why they allow this blatantly anti-competive behaviour by talktalk, and also afaik no individual customer or trading standards department has challenged it as unfair and therefore void. Afaik, talktalk have the technical ability to block 18185, but not Finarea's alternative 0800 and 020 numbers. If they tried to block those, I hope Finarea would make, and succeed with, a protest to Ofcom. The UK, if Ofcom was its usual supine self in response to a protest from Finarea, would be in blatant breach of EU regulations on free market competition.

devizes18193

I've just sgined up with bt .
I know I proberly being thick but can u use 18185 for normal calls on the daytime

Heinz

devizes18193 wrote: »

I've just sgined up with bt .
I know I proberly being thick but can u use 18185 for normal calls on the daytime

Yes, the cost of an 01, 02 or 03 call via 18185 will be 5p regardless of duration whereas, using BT, it'll cost you 7p call set-up fee plus 4p per minute.

pinkcloud

james_d wrote: »

Can't claim it as my own really, this gave me the idea http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=868937&page=2

The access number won't be chargeable no, but the calls made using will appear on the BT bill...

Can't for the life of me remember where the card from 15 years ago has ended up though, so just signed up for another. When it comes though I'll give it a go and post back. 72p to save £7 is worth a punt.

Did this work with the BT Chargecard please?

pinkcloud

pinkcloud

Does anyone know please whether making calls on a BT Chargecard does record chargeable calls on the BT account for the purpose of the free Caller Display when calls are being provided by AOL, Talk Talk etc. now that 1280 doesn't work?

pinkcloud