Secrecy On This Board??????

coolcait

Wol2 wrote: »

Hi Harvey

I am grateful you have brought this subject up...I remember how I felt 9 months ago when I first found the DFW boards......first I lurked, then I posted, now I have my own thread!!

I think there are two parts to this discussion and I can think of a couple of things that hasn't really been mentioned yet which I hope will also put your mind at rest about PM'ing on the boards and the attitude/nature of the regulars.

Firstly..why do people PM other posters....the friends/off topic issue has already been discussed here. However, there is also one other reason that really hasn't been brought out clearly.

Many of the people who post on here are in distress, emotional, anxious....and posting very personal information....and not everyone is clear in their communication, especially if they are posting while in distress. Sometimes the info is financial, sometimes it is about disputes with institutions (which may have a legal aspect to it), sometimes it also involves the actions of other people including family and friends....which again may or may not be open to challenge - Legal or otherwise..(as there are always two sides) ....and we have had a few cases on this board when "the other side" becomes aware of the thread with acrimonious/litigious results....people put themselves at risk when they post publicly and may not be aware they are doing so.

Sometimes the person who has posted has given out sensitive information in response to questions from other posters that could leave them open to legal proceedings...they may be unaware of this fact...and ultimately MSE carries the can for anything libellous that is written on the Boards.

Also, as stated at the top, the DFW board is for help and advice...not judgement. Unfortunately there are a few malicious people out there who post with the main intention to cause either disruption or hurt (trolls) to perhaps already vulnerable people whose self esteem is at a very low ebb.

I therefore PM people in situations where, if I were to post publicly, it would either be to draw attention to their potential risk or if the questions I have to ask may mean they have to divulge information that would put them "at risk"..be it from institutions, family and friends, solicitors or "trolls".

To give a (very simple) example: if someone posts information about their personal cirumstances that could leave them open to paying more council tax than they already do, I am not going to draw attention to that fact publicly. I will PM them.

Secondly, the issue of posting publicly to another poster "I have PM'd you". Again I think this has been discussed but not in it's entirety.

You cannot post or PM unless you are logged in. If you are logged in your light shows green and everyone can see you are on line.

I for one have not set my computer to keep me logged into MSE all the time I am on the website. Therefore I time out after about 10 mins so my light is off even though I am still on the Boards..like now while I am writing this post...(which I have to say has taken me an hour so far!!) This is the same for many others hence if their light is off, we may post and say "I have PM'd you" because they will not get notification unless they are logged in and although their light is off, we think they might still be on-line and reading the thread.

Also, minor point, and please don;t get worried: very infrequesntly, some of us regulars do not want people to know we are on-line. As with any other public internet forum some of us have experienced stalkers etc and have to be careful sometimes (that is also sometimes why we go to MSN rather than log in again to either PM or post publicly) .....

I do have the user CP setting set to notify me of PM's ....but if I am not logged in to get an immediate notification...then I get an email sent to my internet account......but there is at least a 10 minute delay before it hits my Outlook Inbox.

Hopefully this will set your mind at rest...any secrecy is purely for the protection of both ourselves and the poster.....certain information has to remain confidential. The rest of the time it's because it's "friend to friend" /off topic/boring to the other posters/not relevant to the thread.

Please do not feel there are cliques........most of the regulars on here (who let's face it are in the same boat as everyone else, have their own emotions, ups and downs, and require their own support etc from time to time but might not want to post publicly in front of new posters) are quick to pick up on new posters and spend a great deal of their time going through the Board threads to make sure any new poster gets at least one reply before the end of the night, as it is important to them that new posters know there is support and help available. If some have been missed recently, it is because there has been a sudden enormous amount of new posters in the last few weeks and holiday season is upon us so numbers of regulars are depleted. If a poster has been ignored in the middle of one of the chat threads....it could be also for other reasons (I can think of at least one case this week where the poster was PM'd by at least 3 people and encouraged to start their own thread specific to their issue, rather than replied to publicly on a chat thread where the focus is on ....well...chat, banter, light relief....these types of threads are not really geared for focusing on the nitty gritty details of a particular issue or problem!!).

I am however concerned that you have noticed someone has been ignored. So (and please understand this is not trying to "prove a point") ....here is an example of why we PM...please PM me the thread or person if you can....especially if they haven't received a proper reply as this needs to be rectified. I'm sure you understand why I am asking you to PM me.... I do not think it is fair to publicly draw attention to a particular poster and their issues(especially without their permission) for a completely different purpose/reason than what they originally intended.

Please keep coming back....if you're around and about at night then the NightOwls thread will certainly welcome you........Your observations and the resulting discussion are extremeley valuable and I hope will encourage new posters.

With best wishes (and hugs)
Wol2
xx

Well said, Wol2.

I agree with everything you have said, but especially with the first 'reason' you give for PMing.

I've been using internet fora for almost a decade now, and I have seen too many cases where people give away enough info to identify themselves. And have seen too many of them 'outed'

My only foray into PMs on this site has been about a member who had posted enough detail to be identified with a couple of google searches. I opted for PM for two reasons:

i) it would be a bit daft to post "Please edit your posts. I have googled the info you gave us, and know who you are". It makes you sound like a stalker . More seriously, it encourages everyone else to google too...

ii) I was already kicking myself for having posted a message telling someone that the info they had posted might identify them to anyone who knew anout the case . OK, it would have been a huge coincidence if someone who knew the poster had been reading this forum, but I should have been more cautious!

In general terms, it is amazingly easy to give out info which can identify you. Right down to your login. And surely it's better to point out the specifics in a PM rather than a post? And if the person who has given away too much is a newbie, they might not know about PMs, so it makes sense to tell them on the forum that they have a PM...

Basically, as relative newbie here, I don't have a problem with 'you have a PM'/ 'You have email' messages.

I have issues with other things :rotfl:

smashedbooboo

wHAT SHE SAID, !!!!!! why do you say things so elonquently Wol. I am way to tires to write long things tonight, I have made my bed ready and thought i would do another quick post before i went to it. Fell asleep on sofa. Just woken up. So grabbing the chance kick myself up the stairs before i drop off again. Loves ya all lots. Night night my lovelies xxxxxxxxxxxx

MrsTinks

Mudbath wrote: »

I'm more upset that MrsTine has wine and icecream and isn't sharing.....I don't want PMs I want that icecream!!!!!

S'mine! All mine! And I'm in a bad mood so I isn't sharing! Hasten to add my bad mood is only because of the rain - I was hoping to do some training with my dog this morning but she hates rain so it'll be a walk and back home for drying... *sigh*

I think most reasons for the "I have PM'd you" messages have been covered apart from one...

Once in a while I'll PM someone and put a message on the thread - because I don't want people thinking the OP has been ignored. I might not want my reply on the public forums for various reasons but that doesn't mean I don't want to give them advice etc - just so others don't think the OP is ignored I do sometimes drop a quick post on there to say "I've PM'd you" Hope that makes sense...

rog2

I have always found that the degree of anonymity given by this board allows most posters to be extremely open and honest when discussing their 'debt situation'. It is, in fact, the most open forum that I have found, and therein lies its strength - whilst every poster may feel that his/her problems are 'unique' there is almost always someone else who has had to deal with a similar problem and is able, and happy, to advise the poster.
However, you only need to take a look at the bottom of the 'forums' page to see that the percentage of 'members' to 'non-members' viewing this site at any time can be as low as 20%.
This site, and the DFW, Loans and Bank Charges boards in particular, will inevitably be viewed by those people with whom we have the most problems - Banks, Debt Collection Agencies and the oddballs who are simply out to take some form of wierd 'pleasure' from those who find themselves in unfortuate circumstances, whether or not from any fault of their own.
There is always a risk, therefore, that by giving too much personal information, on the open forum, posters could identify themselves to the very people/organisations against whose actions they are seeking advice. This has already happened on several occasions.
The 'Private Message' facility allows for a poster to go into exactly the type of 'detail' that they would be advised not to post openly. A poster is unlikely to 'divulge' personal details, even by PM, to another poster that they do not trust, and that poster can, then, be reasonably certain that any information given 'in confidence' remains 'in confidence'.
Also, as already said, many posters become 'actual' as well as 'virtual' friends, but this is not a 'cliquey' site - other than those who 'troll' this board actively looking to stir up trouble I can think of no other internet forum that even comes near to offering the same level of openness and friendliness of DFW.
I'm sorry that you don't see it in the same way, harvey.

hannoja

I see now that pointing out that you've PM'd someone could be rather helpful in certain circumstances, especially when several more experienced people all feel the urge to PM someone to let them know they should edit the personal information out of their post. If one of them posts that they've PM'd the poster, then the others know they probably don't need to. The unknowing poster will be saved several PMs saying the same thing too, which may have made them feel 'pounced on'.

rog2 wrote: »

I'm sorry that you don't see it in the same way, harvey.

Well, Harvey has 21 posts, and you have several thousand. I have no opinion about either of you regarding that in itself (things like number of posts aren't that important to me: their content is), but perhaps you felt a little differently when you were newer/less familiar/less well-known..? Others have said they 'lurked' for a while before posting. It can be quite daunting posting on such a popular/'busy' forum.

Numpty_Monkey

I agree with what Mrs War And Peace (Wol2:p ) said had to have a break while reading it

As all the others have said the DFW board is the most honest and friendly site anywhere, and you do and will make real friends here:A

I usualy PM people with info or questions that i would prefer not to be on pulic view or as Mrs Tine has said that you want the OP to Know you have pPM'd them as a lot of people don't have notification enabled or there PM box is full


I think the only clique on the DFW is that we are all in the shiiit:o

supersavershal

Can I just add that I know of someone who was actually sacked from their job because of infomation they posted on this forum.
Just another reason why sometimes things are said in PMs or e-mails.
I havnt got a very large post count but I have always felt welcome on most boards, I even venture onto DT when im feeling very brave, and I have PMd more experienced posters and have always had replies.

rog2

hannoja wrote: »

Well, Harvey has 21 posts, and you have several thousand. I have no opinion about either of you regarding that in itself (things like number of posts aren't that important to me: their content is), but perhaps you felt a little differently when you were newer/less familiar/less well-known..? Others have said they 'lurked' for a while before posting. It can be quite daunting posting on such a popular/'busy' forum.

Very true, hannojah - and I did not mean for my post to come accross as, in any way, smug or patronising. You are quite correct in that it is the content of, rather than the number of, posts that is important and I could not agree with you more in that it can be quite daunting to post on such a popular/busy forum, especially when someone finds themselves confronted by a problem (i.e. debt) that nobody ever thinks will happen to them..
Unlike many posters who, as you quite rightly point out, 'lurk' for a while before posting, I only found this site through listening to Martin Lewis on radio 2, one day in June 2006 - prior to that I had no idea of its existence. I did, however, have a big debt problem that seemed to be getting worse, and Martin was explaining about someone with a similar problem, who posted on this forum. At two o'clock that day I logged on to MSE, found DFW, posted my problem before I had really had a chance to even look at the forum - in fact I didn't even realise that it was an open forum as such - by four o'clock I had already received more advice, from people who had, until then, been total strangers, than I had received in the previous four months. Included in that 'advice' were pointers to where I should begin to tackle my problems, and the fact that there were legal options open to me that my 'creditors' were trying to deny the existence of.
It was the very fact that so many, hitherto unknown, people were prepared to offer advice and help without hesitation and with no question of wanting anything in return that restored my faith in human nature. Without the help, and kindness, of the many posters (some are still here, whilst others have moved on) who gave me the benefit of their own experience and enabled me to 'tackle' my problems, I dread to think where I would be now.
Yes I have several thousand posts under my belt and, whilst many of them will be 'social' posts, I would like to think that I am, also, passing on some of the experience that I have gained, through DFW, in order that others may benefit from that experience and avoid at least some of the pitfalls that 'debt' can bring. I certainly do try to welcome any 'newbie' poster who has problems and if I can not give them any advice I do try to point them in the right direction for help, in the same way that others did for me.
I do try to avoid 'cliques' in any situation, whether on this board or in real life. That can not stop me from making friends, virtual or real, and I will, inevitably, enter 'social threads' but not, I hope, to the exclusion of trying to help anyone who needs it, whether in open forum, or by PM.

Lula-Hula

Hmm, been reading this thread with interest & now ready to add my 2 pennies worth.

I noticed very quickly that there were certain groups of people that seemed to all respond to & chat on eachothers threads. I did feel like a bit of an outsider at first but quickly realised that these peeps had obviously been in contact for ages & although I felt a bit pushy for joining in on their threads, no one said "ooh, you're new & we dont know you so go away" .

Like any social situation the best way to feel included is to just join in, maybe introduce yourself or put some info in your sig so others can see what you're all about.

Regarding the PM's; when I first joined MSE I was very wobbly & like so many others in a 'birrofastate' & now realise that perhaps I should not have been quite so open on a public forum. I also realise that I prob could be identifiable from some of the info I have given out & now do stop to think about what I say before I post - well usually :rolleyes: . I'Ve had depression & although it's no big secret & I'm not in any way ashamed of it, I dont think it's right to hijack someone elses thread by discussing it on there so if I see a newbie with the same condition in obvious distress I will offer for them to PM me if they would like to so they can open up to someone empathetic but not in a public place. I've noticed that many more experienced members do the same for a variety of similar reasons.

I think this is generally a very friendly, supportive place & I am SO glad I found it

lula x

kpwll

I'm a relative newbie to the DFW board, I have been made to feel very welcome and (if I'm honest) I'm rather envious of the obvious friendship that exists between the old-timers. BUT as I'm going to be around for a very long time (2024 at last count) then before long I'll be an 'oldie' too. That will be the only time I admit to being an 'old' anything. xx