Breast feeding, pros and cons

Hell_Dans_Un_Handcart

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

The evidence that they do get in sync is disputed, I think:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McClintock_effect

That's fascinating, thank you. I didn't know it had a name

3onitsway

onlyroz wrote: »

I also have difficulty in understanding why someone with no particular medical problems would not even *try* to breastfeed their child. I don't think that "I don't fancy it" is really an acceptable answer, considering the widely known health benefits. Sure, if there's a genuine reason why you can't then don't beat yourself up about it, but I think it's a sorry state of affairs when people won't even give it a go.

My boss in work (a mum of two), asked me if i'd bf'd my two, and intend to bf no.3 (i'm 12 wks), when i said i did she gave me a strange look and said 'its just not natural' - funniest thing i've heard in ages!

I think everyone should at least try. I had no problems feeding DS and found it easy and enjoyable, but had a much harder time with DD! I'll try with no.3 when he/she arrives, if it works out - great, if not, at least i tried.

thatgirlsam

onlyroz wrote: »

What is wrong with questioning the reason for not breastfeeding? What is unacceptable about asking someone "why did you choose to do that?" for any of their decisions? Asking the question is not the same thing as condemning. If I ask you why you go to church (for example), it does not mean that I think you're crazy for going, just that I'm interested in your reasons.

All I'm saying is that if you're going to make such an important decision that benefits the health of your baby, then you should consider your choice carefully. When it comes to breastfeeding, I think that someone who says "I don't fancy it", without being able to justify why, can't really have thought it through.

of course you are right, it should be an informed decision..
but someone who says 'i don't fancy it' should not be made to justify that..
what is this - breastfeeding court??

it is a personal choice - the same as religion, if you like, i wouldn't particularly appreciate you questioning those either, especially if i felt that you thought your religion was more valid than mine.

onlyroz

thatgirlsam wrote: »

it is a personal choice - the same as religion, if you like, i wouldn't particularly appreciate you questioning those either, especially if i felt that you thought your religion was more valid than mine.

I say again, questioning is not the same as condeming, or saying that what I do is superior. What's wrong with asking "why do you do that"? I can't think of a circumstance where it would be inappropriate to ask someone, in a non-critical way, to justify their choice.

Hell_Dans_Un_Handcart

thatgirlsam wrote: »

ok, allergies aside, although a valid point in my mind, there are certain herbs bf mums should avoid..

listen, i am not anti bf, and i don't know why im trying to point out pitfalls of bf!

i suppose its because there are certain mums who will always feel superior because they bf..
not just that bm is superior, because we know that, but in fact they are superior mothers..
it is this myth i would like to dispell, as anyone who thinks they are superior is a bit ott imo

You'd have to eat those herbs in absolutely huge quantities to have any effect, though Seriously, so long as your baby is happy with it and you're not dosing up with methadone etc every few hours(!), you can eat whatever you like.

I don't think breastfeeding mums feel superior. A lot of us have battled through problems and that makes us proud of ourselves, but I've yet to meet a bf mum who looks upon an FF mum and says "jeez, why is she feeding her baby that poison?"

We do encounter a lot of myth, misinformation and negativity about breastfeeding, though. Everyone knows the "breast is best" motto but that seems to be about the depth of knowledge for some people; I think a lot of people think it's propaganda. But breastfeeding is, nine times out of ten, better for baby - and that's a hard thing to say, because it's not aimed at mums who chose not to feed and to make them feel guilty (where's the point in that?), but to point out the fact for mums who are yet to feed. This thread was for a mum who was yet to feed.

If you chose not to feed, I take it you made an informed decision. But a lot of mums aren't informed, for whatever reason. How do we phrase everything sensitively without implying that formula is just as good for baby? Because it isn't. It's a pretty good substitute if breastfeeding is going to have a negative impact for mum or baby - that's what it's meant to be - but it is scientifically proven to be quite far from the ideal food for infants (if it was that great, the manufacturers wouldn't keep changing it). How do we say this to people who need to know, without offending? Genuine question.

thatgirlsam

onlyroz wrote: »

I say again, questioning is not the same as condeming, or saying that what I do is superior. What's wrong with asking "why do you do that"? I can't think of a circumstance where it would be inappropriate to ask someone, in a non-critical way, to justify their choice.

you've got it- in a non-critical way.. i agree
but its probably perfectly obvious to a non bf mum that as soon as a bf mum asks her why she is doing that then she will be subjected to a lecture on information she hopefully already knows and has made her own decision about.

i am not totally disagreeing with you onlyroz, just do not think women who make EITHER choice should have to justify that decision to anyone but herself..

clairehi

surreysaver wrote: »

I think as a man Yes, it is about the baby, but it is also about the mother's body too. No one can force her to do something with her body she does not want to do. Or cannot do. You just have to support her with whatever decision she makes. I think as long as the mother has listened to and considered the father's point of view, whereever a difference of opinion still exists then it is the mother's perogative to make the final decision.

I think SurreySaver makes a valid point for what the OP can do as a father to be, and the limitations of his influence - of course he should respect the mother's pov.


However other posters have made valid points about the wider views of society towards b/f.

It saddens me that on the one hand I get funny looks for bf in public, whereas on the other hand my kids are exposed to copies of "Nuts" showing on the cover, sexualised pics of half-naked pouting girlies, displayed at child's eye level in a petrol station (this happened today). To spell it out, images of breasts are publicly displayed in our society to represent sexuality but it is at the same time unacceptable for a mother to (DISCREETLY) use her breasts in public for their biological purpose ie to feed her baby.

Frankly, I believe that the reason a lot of women do not b/f is that they think it makes them unsexy, although this may not be a bad thing in my book if it stops you getting pg again for a while

thatgirlsam

Hell_Dans_Un_Handcart wrote: »

You'd have to eat those herbs in absolutely huge quantities to have any effect, though Seriously, so long as your baby is happy with it and you're not dosing up with methadone etc every few hours(!), you can eat whatever you like.

I don't think breastfeeding mums feel superior. A lot of us have battled through problems and that makes us proud of ourselves, but I've yet to meet a bf mum who looks upon an FF mum and says "jeez, why is she feeding her baby that poison?"

We do encounter a lot of myth, misinformation and negativity about breastfeeding, though. Everyone knows the "breast is best" motto but that seems to be about the depth of knowledge for some people; I think a lot of people think it's propaganda. But breastfeeding is, nine times out of ten, better for baby - and that's a hard thing to say, because it's not aimed at mums who chose not to feed and to make them feel guilty (where's the point in that?), but to point out the fact for mums who are yet to feed. This thread was for a mum who was yet to feed.

If you chose not to feed, I take it you made an informed decision. But a lot of mums aren't informed, for whatever reason. How do we phrase everything sensitively without implying that formula is just as good for baby? Because it isn't. It's a pretty good substitute if breastfeeding is going to have a negative impact for mum or baby - that's what it's meant to be - but it is scientifically proven to be quite far from the ideal food for infants (if it was that great, the manufacturers wouldn't keep changing it). How do we say this to people who need to know, without offending? Genuine question.

and so you should all feel proud of yourselves!
i think the majority of women have good information today, certainly do at the unit i work in..
and you have hit the nail on the head there - so long as it does not have a negative impact for mum or baby..

i just would like to see mums who don't/cannot bf be made to feel just as good as those who do, and this is sometimes what i do not see in my unit..

onlyroz

clairehi wrote: »

To spell it out, images of breasts are publicly displayed in our society to represent sexuality but it is at the same time unacceptable for a mother to (DISCREETLY) use her breasts in public for their biological purpose ie to feed her baby.

In my own experience, nobody has ever given me a negative comment when I was breastfeeding in public. I did it in parks, on public benches, in cafes and pubs, and I've done it infront of relatives of all ages. Most people did not notice what I was doing, and those who did usually commented positively. The only person who got remotely uncomfortable was my brother, who I think had difficulties with the idea that his little sis was a mother.

Hell_Dans_Un_Handcart

thatgirlsam wrote: »

and so you should all feel proud of yourselves!
i think the majority of women have good information today, certainly do at the unit i work in..
and you have hit the nail on the head there - so long as it does not have a negative impact for mum or baby..

i just would like to see mums who don't/cannot bf be made to feel just as good as those who do, and this is sometimes what i do not see in my unit..

But how many of the formula feeding women you see have already made up their minds, before they come to your unit? Women are affected hugely by what their families and partners think, for example - and we have a generation of babies who were formula fed as their mothers were encouraged to, being told it was superior. Misinformation is quite often passed along in families - it needs to be corrected well before the birth, because once you've started FFing, it's hard (though not impossible) to go back.

There are reams and reams of women who think formula is as good as breastmilk because their mothers tell them so, because celebrities (like Jordan) tell them so, because adverts imply it. Claims like "closer than ever to breast milk" really don't help (yes, it's closer than it was before, but that's still not very close!). These women aren't stupid, it's just that bottle feeding is so acceptable that they don't think twice; why would you if you've already made up your mind?

And then, what happens to the mums who encounter breastfeeding problems once they leave your unit? This is when good bfing advice is most difficult to find. A lot of women don't know that breastfeeding counsellors exist. And six weeks down the line, a huge amount have given up because minsinformation prevails.

We have such a poor support model for infant feeding in this country - very little expert bfing advice and practically no FF advice. You're damned either way, unless you really know where to look for either - and yet it's perfectly acceptable to assume as a pregnant woman that this advice will be available, and you won't have to trawl the internet for it at 2am with a screaming newborn.