Breast feeding, pros and cons

onlyroz

surreysaver wrote: »

Didn't think formula companies were allowed to advertise?

Also, the reason the NHS spends 1/100 on advertising is because they get you lot to go out and do it on their behalf!

Formula companies are certainly allowed to advertise - I've seen plenty of adverts on the tv in the last few weeks - usually mid morning during the repeats of American sit-coms.

JimmyTheWig

thatgirlsam wrote: »

there are plenty of reasons a mum can't bf

I spoke about a mum who refused to breastfeed. Yes, there will be cases where it is impossible (mother on medication, etc). There will be many more cases where it could have been possible with the right support.
But for those who choose not to, I see that as the same as choosing not to give up smoking.

there is plenty of support for mums who bf in hospital.. a lot more support than for those who don't wish to in fairness..
they have a lactation consultant, midwives, mca's all there to support them..

That's not our experience, I'm afraid. I'm glad your area is better than ours.

My wife fed our first for 13 months with very few problems and had a wonderful time.
The experience with our second was completely different. They had problems from day one (some have blamed the midwife in hospital for these problems starting). She tried and tried and tried. We did everything we could to go out and find the support that was needed. The midwives refused to come out to see us the second day we were home, despite us telling them that the feeding wasn't working.
Eventually we found the right help and things got better. She carried on feeding, again, for 13 months.

The point is that if she hadn't have had such a positive experience with our first then she would not have continued feeding our second. We would not have gone to the lengths that we went to to find the help.
But if the right help had been there from the beginning then there would have been no question that she would have fed.
In other words, if she had been a first time mum she would have given up breastfeeding due to a lack of support.

Had similar problems with baby number 3, but we then knew where to get help and things got sorted fairly quickly. She is 6 months and still feeding.

in fact when you have spent a whole nightshift hand expressing with a mum who's baby is in neonatal unit you can comment on how much support they get.

When you have spent two weeks with my wife and baby with the problems we had, then you can comment on how much support we got.

JimmyTheWig

onlyroz wrote: »

Formula companies are certainly allowed to advertise - I've seen plenty of adverts on the tv in the last few weeks - usually mid morning during the repeats of American sit-coms.

Yes, they advertise. But as has been said they cannot advertise "baby milk" or breastmilk substitutes, only stuff like follow-on milk.

But they advertise these milks in a way that helps to advertise their baby milk products. E.g. the advert at the moment that talks about "holding the baby wrong" and "doing my share of night-feeds". Both of these comments are not aimed at people with babies older than 6 months.

The whole fact that people think that they do advertise shows what a good job they have done (for themselves).

galvanizersbaby

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

You could argue it is fair to show the same hosility to a mother who refuses their baby breastmilk as would be shown to a mother who smokes in the presence of their baby.
The problem, though, is with the lack of support for those who want to breastfeed and the constant media bias towards formula.

I find this hugely offensive to suggest that hostility should be shown to a mother who refuses/can't breast feed their baby and using the comparision of a mother who smokes around their baby (which is actually harmful to a child)

What lack of support for those who want to breastfeed?! - what constant media bias? - I breastfeed and bottlefeed my babies - I was given plenty of support - I didn't notice the constant media bias towards formula

Clearly this poster has not got a scooby! :rotfl:

galvanizersbaby

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

I spoke about a mum who refused to breastfeed. Yes, there will be cases where it is impossible (mother on medication, etc). There will be many more cases where it could have been possible with the right support.
But for those who choose not to, I see that as the same as choosing not to give up smoking.

That is your opinion - Sorry that your wife had a hard time breastfeeding and didn't get the support she needed but that is certainly not everybody's experience - I just don't see that gives you the right to sit in judgement of those women who choose not to breast feed and compare it to an activity which is actually harmful to a child

Hell_Dans_Un_Handcart

Hmm. There is a lack of breastfeeding support in a lot of areas in the UK, though. I had some great help in hospital, but when I left it was a different story. Don't get me started on some of the advice I've heard being given to other mums at clinics - it's quite shocking. Some of us are lucky and some aren't. If we have such brilliant support available in the UK, why are our BF stats so low? Why are debates like this filled with mums who feel guilty, who encountered problems and didn't know where to turn?

We seem to have a very skewed perception of formula in the Western world - baby dolls all come with bottles, mums on TV have bottles (ever seen a mum persevere with breastfeeding on a soap?), babies in computer games (The Sims, for example) are fed with bottles. And that really doesn't help to show the young girls of our generation that breastfeeding is the normal food for babies - not "the best", not "if you like" - it's just what they are meant to be fed.

I was actually just reading an article which compared mums who refuse to breastfeed with those who refuse to stop smoking during/after pregnancy. I think it's a fair comparison - both potentially harm the child. I do tire a little of the "formula isn't poison" argument - it might not be poison, but it is greatly inferior to breastmilk (I don't think people realise by how much, sometimes), and yet that seems a taboo thing to say. It's a fact, just like the sky is blue. It's an emotive subject and I greatly sympathise with women who started out breastfeeding and weren't able to continue (or couldn't full stop) - but for as long as formula is seen as an acceptable "choice", the support for these women will simply never be in place everywhere.

gingerkirsty

galvanizersbaby wrote: »

I find this hugely offensive to suggest that hostility should be shown to a mother who refuses/can't breast feed their baby and using the comparision of a mother who smokes around their baby (which is actually harmful to a child)

What lack of support for those who want to breastfeed?! - what constant media bias? - I breastfeed and bottlefeed my babies - I was given plenty of support - I didn't notice the constant media bias towards formula

Clearly this poster has not got a scooby! :rotfl:

Formula feeding is harmful to a child. We can skirt around the issue all we like, and try our hardest not to make mothers feel guilty (see my earlier posts on how I do not feel a mother should feel guilty for not receiving the support she needs to bf), but formula is sub-standard.

Formula fed babies -
more likely to be hospitalised
more likely to develop a huge long list of problems, obesity, asthma etc
more likely to die
cost to NHS = £35m per year

Most women who start to breast feed report they stop before they want to due to lack of support. They blinking well should not feel guilty!

Mothers who chose to breast feed should not be called the breastfeeding mafia or hippies either.

Mothers who think that formula is equal to breast milk are misguided.

Formula companies are bloody good at what they do and do it for money - not the health or benefits of our kiddies - but for profits.

thatgirlsam

Hell_Dans_Un_Handcart wrote: »

Hmm. There is a lack of breastfeeding support in a lot of areas in the UK, though. I had some great help in hospital, but when I left it was a different story. Don't get me started on some of the advice I've heard being given to other mums at clinics - it's quite shocking. Some of us are lucky and some aren't. If we have such brilliant support available in the UK, why are our BF stats so low? Why are debates like this filled with mums who feel guilty, who encountered problems and didn't know where to turn?

We seem to have a very skewed perception of formula in the Western world - baby dolls all come with bottles, mums on TV have bottles (ever seen a mum persevere with breastfeeding on a soap?), babies in computer games (The Sims, for example) are fed with bottles. And that really doesn't help to show the young girls of our generation that breastfeeding is the normal food for babies - not "the best", not "if you like" - it's just what they are meant to be fed.

I was actually just reading an article which compared mums who refuse to breastfeed with those who refuse to stop smoking during/after pregnancy. I think it's a fair comparison - both potentially harm the child. I do tire a little of the "formula isn't poison" argument - it might not be poison, but it is greatly inferior to breastmilk (I don't think people realise by how much, sometimes), and yet that seems a taboo thing to say. It's a fact, just like the sky is blue. It's an emotive subject and I greatly sympathise with women who started out breastfeeding and weren't able to continue (or couldn't full stop) - but for as long as formula is seen as an acceptable "choice", the support for these women will simply never be in place everywhere.

formula is an acceptable choice for those who wish to bottle feed..
who are you to say what is acceptable or not

thatgirlsam

gingerkirsty wrote: »

Formula feeding is harmful to a child. We can skirt around the issue all we like, and try our hardest not to make mothers feel guilty (see my earlier posts on how I do not feel a mother should feel guilty for not receiving the support she needs to bf), but formula is sub-standard.

Formula fed babies -
more likely to be hospitalised
more likely to develop a huge long list of problems, obesity, asthma etc
more likely to die
cost to NHS = £35m per year

Most women who start to breast feed report they stop before they want to due to lack of support. They blinking well should not feel guilty!

Mothers who chose to breast feed should not be called the breastfeeding mafia or hippies either.

Mothers who think that formula is equal to breast milk are misguided.

Formula companies are bloody good at what they do and do it for money - not the health or benefits of our kiddies - but for profits.

thats not a good thing to say.. how would you like a mother who is HIV positive to be told her baby is more likely to die without breastmilk..

ps. not sure if you realise - but everyones gonna die.. saying 'more likely to die! '
silly.

galvanizersbaby

gingerkirsty wrote: »

Formula feeding is harmful to a child. We can skirt around the issue all we like, and try our hardest not to make mothers feel guilty (see my earlier posts on how I do not feel a mother should feel guilty for not receiving the support she needs to bf), but formula is sub-standard.

Formula fed babies -
more likely to be hospitalised
more likely to develop a huge long list of problems, obesity, asthma etc
more likely to die
cost to NHS = £35m per year

Most women who start to breast feed report they stop before they want to due to lack of support. They blinking well should not feel guilty!

But to me you are saying the opposite - by feeding their baby formula milk then they are physically harming their baby - how can mothers who fail to breastfeed through lack of support/whatever not feel guilty when they give their children formula which is likely to harm them judging by the facts you have posted.
I am sure (in fact I know) their are plenty of breast fed babies that are hospitalised, develop asthma, obesity etc etc.... My nephew is one of them - my sister found little comfort in the fact that she didn't cause the problem with formula milk - in fact she just felt guilty as we parents do - she is a severe asthmatic herself (and yes my mother breastfeed all of us!)

I think we all know the facts on feeding - to make any woman feel gulity whether she is breastfeeding or bottlefeeding in my opinion is wrong.