Which mattress? (merged threads)

nicktheinsomniac

Hello all - new to the site so thanks to you all for your advice - especially Tim. I'm looking for a decent pocket sprung mattress and sleep on my side so been told medium-firm (rather than firm) is a good idea - is that true? Anyone (especially Tim) have an opinion on Warren Evans beds? I've just been to the Warren Evans showroom and tried the "Sienna" mattress; really liked it - but have no real idea if it's worth the price, take a look;

http://www.warrenevans.com/mattresses/individually_pocket_sprung_mattresses/sienna_mattress/

Any opinions much appreciated. Nick

Tim_Deegan

alictait wrote: »

Hi again,

I did a bit of further research aswell on ergoflex despite the negative comments here. I had initially emailed the company and got a very swift response I am sure there will be no issues posting part of the response here

I am interested in your product but would like if possible for you to clarify a couple of concerns. I have been looking at mattresses for a while now collating advice from different places. I note you compare yourself to Tempur, though Tempur have done very poorly in recent tests compared to other memory foams.
Tempur are widely regarded as the market leader, and originally pioneered the manufacturing of 'visco-elastic' foam for domesic use. In my opinion Tempur make excellent mattresses, however suffer in product reviews from their hefty price tag. They also tend to get too warm, and their previous version of foam (tested by 'which' in 2006) has since been modified to make it recover faster when turning over. The Ergoflex 'cool-sleep' airflow system largely negates the temperature problem and we also use a 'faster recovery' HD visco foam.

The only reasons that Tempur are so well known is because they manufactured it for NASA when it was first developed for astronauts seats. Tempur then realised that it could also be used in mattresses. So they held the original patent. However since their patent expired many other manufacturers have started producing memory foam (in many cases better and cheaper than Tempur). Tempur use the power of advertising, and their history to keep their prices very very high.

As for the airflow system gimmicks that are being used in many reflex foam/memory foam mattresses, they are just holes that go through the width of the mattress. The manufacturers con people into believing that the air will circulate through these holes. The truth is that the holes will just be flattened when any weight is applied to the mattress.

The only way to make memory foam recover quicker is to make it lower density.

alictait wrote: »

My prime concern is the density and thickness that you quote for your memory foam. Most places seem to recommend a max density of 70kgm3 and thickness of 63mm, whereas your mattress is 85kgm3 and 90mm respectively. Can you explain the benefits of such ?


We disagree with the information you have read. There is a lot of unfounded conjecture available to read online, most of it peddled by retailers or manufacturers selling products of a lesser specification. True 'HD' foam (85kg m/3 + ) requires great technical ability to manufacture, and as such is what we believe to be a good indicator of the technological ability of the manufacturer. In the UK, Ergoflex mattress have a top layer of 85d visco foam. The only other manufacturers in the UK that have the ability to manufacture at this density and above are Tempur & Kaymed. Density is a reflection of the raw material content used to create the layer of foam and is a good indicator of the support the mattress will provide and the longevity you will get from the item. The current Ergoflex mattress composition is what be believe to be the optimum performing mix of materials, density, depth, layering, etc, for the mass market domestic consumer.

Yet again complete rubbish designed to justify the fact that they have copied Tempurs design (obviously to use as a selling point).

There are many manufacturers who are quite capable of producing V85 memory foam, but don't because there is no market for it as it is too dense for use in mattresses. Vitafoam produce a memory foam that is 77kg per m3, but don't sell much for mattress use as there isn't the demand.

Most of the memory foam used in high quality memory foam mattresses manufactured in the UK is supplied by either Kaymed or Vitafoam. Many manufacturers chop and change between the two because their quality is identical.

alictait wrote: »

A further email also indicated that they do not offer a comfort guarantee.

Having used a 2" thick memory foam topper for 2 years that has since developed indentations in the areas where we sleep, I am worried about spending a relatively large sum of money on any memory foam product(be that Ergoflex or La Rpmantic Madrid) We are in the market for a SuperKing mattress so the price is obviously that bit dearer. As our old reflex foam mattress ( I say old - its about 4 years), is still in pretty good condition I am actually debating trying a better quality topper again to see if it retains its shape and then possibly replace again in the future. I am skeptical as to whether the indentations are actually an inherent problem with memory foam or whether we have been unlucky - but I am sure you can appreciate our trepidation.

With the experience of having used the 2" topper I could see how anything less than 2" of memory foam would be insufficient and in turn would dismiss the empress as an option. I have also been dismissing any memory foam mattress that has neglected to mention the density (on the basis that if they don't provide the figure then it is usually inferior), again an issue with the empress (at least in the link provided).

Although I like the idea of purchasing a luxury mattress and transforming my sleep pattern. I am just not sure I can justify taking a chance on something for £600 +, that will be problematic in 2 years time.

HTH

Hi quality memory foam should outlast the springs. So I'm afraid it seems that either the memory foam in your topper was low quality, or it is actually the reflex foam that has broken down and become soft where you sleep.

There are people who give a satisfaction guarantee.

You say that your topper only lasted two years......well if it was designed to last longer, then the manufacturer must pay at least part of the cost of replacement.

Nile

MSE_Forum_Manager wrote: »

We seem to be dealing with the same issues again and again on this board and it needs to stop. We have accusations of self promotion on one side and victimisation on the other and it’s getting out of hand.

The user Tim Deegan has been helping people on these boards for almost 2 years and many people have benefitted from his experience and advice in the area of beds and mattresses. However, some users feel that he has been promoting his own company and have complained to Abuse. We have been dealing with these complaints but apparently, this has not been enough for some users and now we have counter complaints about harassment and victimisation. It seems that some site users have been going out of their way to follow Tim and others around and comment on his every post. We have been gathering information regarding some of these accounts and if the reports regarding AEs being created to harass other users are true, we will ban all accounts involved. We would hope that people take this hint and conduct themselves in an appropriate manner.

Quite frankly folks, this situation is ridiculous and is wasting our resources so let us be clear from now on:

Posters (and this applies to everyone) will not use any terms that indicate they have a business related to the topic. For example, statements like “I'm not allowed to advertise here but..." or “I’d provide a link but it’s against the site rules” etc. could be misconstrued as subtle advertisements and must not be used. If someone asks about your credentials, it’s enough to say “I have worked in the industry for x years”. Links to images on your own website are similarly banned.

On the complaints side, if you have a problem with a post, report it to Abuse. After that, the responsibility is ours to deal with it. If the post remains unchanged, you can therefore assume that the post is allowable. You do not need to keep reporting it or others like it.

As some members may not have read the post by the Forum Manager, the above quote is to help them......................and a reminder to others.

Nile

nicktheinsomniac

I've just been to the Warren Evans showroom and tried the "Sienna" mattress; really liked it...

http://www.warrenevans.com/mattresse...enna_mattress/

Does this fall within your remit?

Lomax_3

Thanks Alictait, so far Ergoflex are still looking an option for me based on the above, still a bit of a gamble though without the benefit of being able to try in store I guess but I'd be paying online prices.

One other option I came across while checking for more information on the Hush Empress which looks like the memory foam is more or less just a softer, was the Vogue Empress http://www.voguebeds.co.uk/pocket-memory-collection/empress

They have a firm one that tempts too since I'm a bit paranoid about medium turning out soft, but the nearest I can find is the viscount mattress which has 800 springs with the memory foam for a medium firm feel apparently. Just asking them what sort of foam they use, will be interesting to hear their reply back (if any!).

nicktheinsomniac

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

Unfortunately if I was to answer your questions then I would be in breach of MSE's rules......sorry

Fair enough Tim...this whole board seems to have gone to absurd levels of conjecture as it's impossible to offer opinions without some bias coming through.

OK SO a simple question to you or anyone in the know...

Does this look like a good option? Spring count is 903 and after looking at countless pocket spring mattresses I can't find anything better for the price that I can test out personally in a showroom in London....

http://www.warrenevans.com/mattresse...enna_mattress/

Tim_Deegan

Lomax wrote: »

Thanks Alictait, so far Ergoflex are still looking an option for me based on the above, still a bit of a gamble though without the benefit of being able to try in store I guess but I'd be paying online prices.

One other option I came across while checking for more information on the Hush Empress which looks like the memory foam is more or less just a softer, was the Vogue Empress http://www.voguebeds.co.uk/pocket-memory-collection/empress

They have a firm one that tempts too since I'm a bit paranoid about medium turning out soft, but the nearest I can find is the viscount mattress which has 800 springs with the memory foam for a medium firm feel apparently. Just asking them what sort of foam they use, will be interesting to hear their reply back (if any!).

Have you tried calling Vogue Beds to find out the density of the memory foam?

Tim_Deegan

nicktheinsomniac wrote: »

Fair enough Tim...this whole board seems to have gone to absurd levels of conjecture as it's impossible to offer opinions without some bias coming through.

OK SO a simple question to you or anyone in the know...

Does this look like a good option? Spring count is 903 and after looking at countless pocket spring mattresses I can't find anything better for the price that I can test out personally in a showroom in London....

http://www.warrenevans.com/mattresse...enna_mattress/

As far as trying it out in a showroom goes, go for it. I can't give out stockists details anyway.

Lomax_3

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

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There are many manufacturers who are quite capable of producing V85 memory foam, but don't because there is no market for it as it is too dense for use in mattresses. Vitafoam produce a memory foam that is 77kg per m3, but don't sell much for mattress use as there isn't the demand.

Most of the memory foam used in high quality memory foam mattresses manufactured in the UK is supplied by either Kaymed or Vitafoam. Many manufacturers chop and change between the two because their quality is identical.

Looking up Vitafoam they mention on their website http://www.vitafoam.co.uk/vasco.htm This list does bear out what you say here, since I would expect a major supplier like this to be offering >80kg if there was a market for it. The same people did design the mattress I think that I laid on in hospital last year, or at least another hospital one similar (best sleep I've had in years) where due to a couple of fractured vertebrae I had to sleep on my back for most of it.

It gets murky again though since Kaymed are offering 85kg foam on a lot of their offering if this page is correct http://www.archerssleepcentre.co.uk/archers-beds/cart.php?m=product_list&v=7 In fact they are offering a 100kg foam in there which seems to go against the trend, I'm not sure here if it will last longer but common sense says that a denser foam is going to take more weight to mold and makes me suspicious here if its a company going on a bigger numbers marketting drive.

Even the company selling it admit there is a difference in the feel with the different densities since they do not just say bigger is better so I guess here they will respond differently. Reading about the foam though the longlife seems to be more a product of the quality of the materials rather then density. Still looking....

alictait

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

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You say that your topper only lasted two years......well if it was designed to last longer, then the manufacturer must pay at least part of the cost of replacement.

Hi Tim,

Thanks again for your post.

The problem with the satisfaction guarantee is how long does it last for. The initial comfort guarantee is fair enough, however if after two years a £600 + mattress isn't living up to the quality you would expect, it can be difficult to claim wouldn't you agree. For example some Memory foam manufacturers would state that unless a dip of at least 1 visible inch, prior to sleeping on, then they wouldn't honour a claim. Also the terms of the warranties and satisfaction guarantee's aren't always clear or widely available.

Also could you advise the length of time you have had experience with memory foam and is it long enough to guage a true vision of the expected lifespan of such.