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Natwest and CPP scam

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My 79 year old mother received a replacement Natwest debit card to replace one that was about to expire, on the back was a telephone number with instructions to call in order to activate the new card. She made the call and once the activation process was done she was immediately passed on to another operator who proceeded to try a hard sell for identity fraud protection, she declined this and thought no more of it other than to think it 'a bloody cheek' in her words. About a week or 10 days later an innocuous looking letter arrives from CPP which a first glance appears to be a sales letter, knowing that she has not signed up for anything no further action is taken. Next thing she knows is that a sum of £79.99 appears as a direct debit on her account about 6 weeks later. It is at this point she brings the matter to my attention so I get on the phone to CPP (premium rate no.) and ask what is going on. They say that the policy was agreed to on the phone and there is nothing that they can do. After aggressively pressing them on this they agree to review the record of the original phone call, but this will take about a week. At no time did my mother give CPP any of her account details to CPP either during the sales call nor by way of any other correspondence, in fact there were no other correspondence. So how does a direct debit in favour of CPP get set up without the account holder giving any account details or their permission? Well this is where Natwest come into it, as it would appear that they have a cozy little arrangement with CPP where by CPP are supplied the necessary account details without any referral to the account holder. I dont know if this is legal, but if it is I am totally gobsmacked. Realising now that Natwest is complicit in this scam I go to the branch where my mothers account is and speak with an assistant manager (manager out to lunch) who basically tells me it is all above board and that there is nothing that can be done about it.
This saga has left me feeling exceedingly angry, and also bewildered that something like this can be happening in what is supposed to be a highly regulated market with a supposedly high degree of consumer protection.
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Comments

  • Lip_Stick
    Lip_Stick Posts: 2,415 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I know how you feel, Natwest also tried it on with me. They tried to get me to sign up for their Advantage Gold account. I had already had it previously and cancelled so knew what it was all about and gave a firm no when I was in a meeting with them about another issue. It wasn't of any use to me and wasn't free. A month later they're taking the fee for it out of my account.

    I complained and got refunded straight away. I was angry at the time, but as they refunded me right away I didn't see the need to take it further. I rather wish I'd made a complaint though. They were blatently trying it on and thought they could scam me.

    Hope you get your matter sorted out as quickly as I did. It seems very shifty the way they go about things. I'm now with another bank.
    There's a storm coming, Mr Johnson. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us.
  • Incisor
    Incisor Posts: 2,271 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    I think you may have to take it to the small claims court. Give them plenty of opportunity to prove that it was ordered - recordings transcripts etc, then take a drawn out process of getting it to court. Of course if they produce evidence, showing that it was requested and they made the price clear, then leave it.

    But, assuming they didn't really have justification, they may offer to waive it. Don't go with that, take it to court unless they actually back down and admit they had no authority. My bet is that they will back down quickly and try to get it hushed. But you will do everyone a favour to get them to admit they were wrong and then post the details. Please?
    After the uprising of the 17th June The Secretary of the Writers Union
    Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee Stating that the people
    Had forfeited the confidence of the government And could win it back only
    By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier In that case for the government
    To dissolve the people
    And elect another?
  • myrnahaz
    myrnahaz Posts: 1,117 Forumite
    HSBC did something similar to my DS - he rang them to complain but they were really helpful - the girl told him that there was actually a note on his account that said 'customer refused offer of xxx service'. She immediately cancelled the policy, refunded the money taken by DD and asked if he wanted compensation. He was a bit stunned so just said '£20 please'.
  • tincat
    tincat Posts: 935 Forumite
    I'm also with Natwest and I noticed they took £21.75 out of my account in May and I've been meaning to go and argue with them about it. Just haven't had the time yet, but thanks for reminding me.

    I definitely didn't agree to this either.
  • redlion_2
    redlion_2 Posts: 6 Forumite
    Update
    I had a call from CPP today to say that they had reviewed the audio record of the original call and as a result they would be canceling the policy and making a refund of the Direct Debit. Although this action remedies the original complaint, it does nothing to answer the serious concerns that this saga has raised, namely:
    1. Why are Banks passing customers who are calling to activate a debit card directly over to high pressure tele sales personnel.
    2. How such a conversation can lead to a Direct Debit being set up without either the customer supplying account information or subsequently confirming their acceptance of the contract
    3. Why Natwest, when challenged about the Direct Debit, made no attempt to inform the customer of their rights under the terms of the Direct Debit Guarantee.

    In fact I telephoned BACS, who administer the Direct Debit system, about this and they were very helpful and made it perfectly clear that under the terms of the Direct Debit Guarantee, that any DD payment you are not happy with must be recredited immediately upon request. This I think is something most banks would rather customers remain unaware of.
    The process under which CPP set up the DD is apparently administered by APACS, and I am in the process of determining if I have any grounds to make a complaint, as I suspect that the procedures used in this case by CPP did conform to the strict rules governing this type of transaction.
  • McKneff
    McKneff Posts: 38,857 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    good for you, up and at em
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
  • embelliss
    embelliss Posts: 69 Forumite
    I worked for a company that had connections to CPP, and from the time I worked there, it appears that alot of people are signed to CPP by the 'up-selling'- when a customer calls-to introduce a product at the end of a call.
    Alot of the time, even if people say no, because the agent gets commision from this - they will sign them up anyway. If the customer notices, they make it hard to cancel. If the customer doesn't notice, then the policy will just be charged automatically every renewal date.
  • embelliss
    embelliss Posts: 69 Forumite
    redlion wrote: »

    The process under which CPP set up the DD is apparently administered by APACS, and I am in the process of determining if I have any grounds to make a complaint, as I suspect that the procedures used in this case by CPP did conform to the strict rules governing this type of transaction.

    Also, I forgot to say, most of the time, it's not a Direct Debit set up, its an automatic withdrawl from a card number. It is confused alot, because it is automatic, and they might 'call' it a direct debit, but from my job, it was always 90% of the time taken from a card number.
  • Sol00
    Sol00 Posts: 1,230 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    redlion wrote: »
    Update
    I had a call from CPP today to say that they had reviewed the audio record of the original call and as a result they would be canceling the policy and making a refund of the Direct Debit. Although this action remedies the original complaint, it does nothing to answer the serious concerns that this saga has raised, namely:
    1. Why are Banks passing customers who are calling to activate a debit card directly over to high pressure tele sales personnel.
    2. How such a conversation can lead to a Direct Debit being set up without either the customer supplying account information or subsequently confirming their acceptance of the contract
    3. Why Natwest, when challenged about the Direct Debit, made no attempt to inform the customer of their rights under the terms of the Direct Debit Guarantee.

    In fact I telephoned BACS, who administer the Direct Debit system, about this and they were very helpful and made it perfectly clear that under the terms of the Direct Debit Guarantee, that any DD payment you are not happy with must be recredited immediately upon request. This I think is something most banks would rather customers remain unaware of.
    The process under which CPP set up the DD is apparently administered by APACS, and I am in the process of determining if I have any grounds to make a complaint, as I suspect that the procedures used in this case by CPP did conform to the strict rules governing this type of transaction.

    Hi Redlion

    Well it's obvious they've listened to the call and realised the advisor had put the sale through when they shouldn't have.

    Are you going to complain to the Assistant Manager?

    I understand the issues you've raised, however, the bank would use a verbal agreement over the phone as acceptance of the policy and pass the details to the insurer (CPP). I don't see a problem with this, as long as the customer actually agrees to it of course.

    Hope you get some sincere apologies from them. Keep us posted.
  • Mr_Valentine
    Mr_Valentine Posts: 12 Forumite
    edited 12 March 2012 at 10:48PM
    I wrote this out of spite, whether the information is truthful it is still wrong!
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