Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

the_wee_scot

I've just been looking at what my likely gas off take would be and I'm utterly gob smacked!

I must be being stupid! I have to be it just doesn't make sense!

Bear in mind this is commercial

Boiler goes through 4.67 cubic meters of gas an hour. By my count assuming the boiler was running 6 months of the year (its just for central heating) it would go through almost 20,000 litres of gas!

Our heating engineer/adviser told me we'd need two boilers for the size of the building so that's 40,000 litres of gas a year!

Now for the hot water. The boiler is an instant water heater and goes through 2.5 cubic meters an hour. Now assuming its on 12 hours a day (yes we work a 12 hour day!) it would go through 7.5m litres of gas a year! That's utter madness! I must have got this wrong! I mean really!

That would mean our total annual gas consumption would the best part of 7.6m litres a year at a cost of 3.8m a year!

Even if we got a 50,000 litre gas tank the tanker would still be coming to deliver 3 days every week! This has to be wrong it's just madness!

Where am I going worng with this?

LittleVermin

Latest news about Flogas:

http://www.mhwmagazine.co.uk/LatestNews/FLOGAS,_one_of_the_UK%27s_largest_LPG_suppliers,_prepares_for_winter_in_the_height_of_summer-9800.html

No mention of their new logistics expert on Flogas's own website.

But lots of mention of Flogas on this forum ... about prices, contracts, deliveries, etc.

BTW, did you spot the strapline above the linked news report? "Flogas - The Friendliest LPG Supplier in the UK!" It goes with the new cuddly felt cartoon characters "go" and "flo".

... go: "I'll go with you Flo", flo: "And we'll both get £75 of LPG for free". I believe £75 is the highest figure of all the 'inducements' offered by LPG companies. I wonder why?

..

sk240

the_wee_scot wrote: »

I've just been looking at what my likely gas off take would be and I'm utterly gob smacked!

I must be being stupid! I have to be it just doesn't make sense!

Bear in mind this is commercial

Boiler goes through 4.67 cubic meters of gas an hour. By my count assuming the boiler was running 6 months of the year (its just for central heating) it would go through almost 20,000 litres of gas!

Our heating engineer/adviser told me we'd need two boilers for the size of the building so that's 40,000 litres of gas a year!

Now for the hot water. The boiler is an instant water heater and goes through 2.5 cubic meters an hour. Now assuming its on 12 hours a day (yes we work a 12 hour day!) it would go through 7.5m litres of gas a year! That's utter madness! I must have got this wrong! I mean really!

That would mean our total annual gas consumption would the best part of 7.6m litres a year at a cost of 3.8m a year!

Even if we got a 50,000 litre gas tank the tanker would still be coming to deliver 3 days every week! This has to be wrong it's just madness!

Where am I going worng with this?

This scenario would be affected by many factors. although you have got your figures very wrong!
the boilers would not run continuously, only when there is a demand for it (when you run the hot tap the boiler will run, once you turn off the tap the boiler will stop)
heating wise it depends on how well insulated the place is, the boiler will just top up the heating when the place starts to cool, it will then cut off once the set temperature is reached.

using your numbers,If the supply is LPG
40,000 liters of LPG x 0.46ppl= £18400 (half this if its natural gas)

the_wee_scot

Yeah I would agree. I very defiantly got them wrong. I knew I must have because I just couldn't imagine any company using that much, it's just utter madness so thank you for confirming what I new had to be wrong. :-)

It's a big problem with so many variables it is very difficult to work it all out.

I did think about taking advantage of E7 and just running the heating system from a thermal store and have a separate unvented cylinder for the DHW. Not sure that would work but now that I've worked out the real answer i don't think I'll need to use E7.

GrandadRob

Hi...just popped in for a visit and read the magazine piece on Flogas.
By the time they have trained everyone for everything, will the lady in the canteen who makes splendid cheese on toast, be able to lift that heavy delivery nozzle.....................:rotfl::rotfl:

LittleVermin

GrandadRob wrote: »

Hi...just popped in for a visit and read the magazine piece on Flogas.
By the time they have trained everyone for everything, will the lady in the canteen who makes splendid cheese on toast, be able to lift that heavy delivery nozzle.....................:rotfl::rotfl:

Rob, Flogas drivers just won't have time to enjoy their cheese on toast - however splendid!

But you've a serious point. My Extra Gas delivery in January (within 10 working days of order) was, as usual, by Flogas - but the driver was an engineer who normally deals with tank replacement, etc. He said they were working double shifts, drivers and redeployed engineers, so the tankers were on the road all day and all night. Presumably they had adequate supplies to refill the tankers. But an independent supplier told me that Flogas switched the phones for orders through to the marketing department!

There was a lot of very justified complaining on this forum over Christmas and the New Year* - AND the same the previous year - unanswered phones, no deliveries, empty tanks, etc - so I wonder what measures the other companies have taken to avoid a hat trick? Anyone know?


*and some very stupid - and unhelpful - comments about topping up!

GrandadRob

Well, following last winter, and the constant price rises presented to me by my :jprevious:j supplier.... Flogas. I have made some changes to my usage. I have bought in loads of extra logs for my log burners, and now feel that with a brimming tank of gas from those lovely Callow people, I will have enough to last all through this coming winter.

LittleVermin

GrandadRob wrote: »

... constant price rises presented to me by my previous supplier.... Flogas. ................

tank of gas from those lovely Callow people............

In case people think my last post made Flogas sound an excellent company to have as your LPG supplier you might like to read a few of GrandadRob's posts before he switched to Callow - or indeed many other posters. They - Flogas - even had their own telly programme! - a whole programme in 'Don't Get Done, Get Dom" which was repeated. All about charging neighbouring households different prices. Here's a similar situation.

AND there's a very interesting post here about Flogas and metered estates:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=37031086&postcount=221

confusedgranma

Could one of you brilliant mathematicians help me? I am about to sign a rental contract on a property with LPG. I know nothing about it except what was shown on the tv program with Dominic which has me a bit....no, a LOT... worried and wonder if it would be the right move.
My current home has gas central heating which is very old and not very efficient. The new house is newer and better insulated etc so theoretically would be cheaper to heat but all things that work in theory rarely work in practice so here are my questions.

My last gas bill (scottish gas ) said I used 11006 kwh over 90 days. How would this work out with LPG? ie how many litres would I use to burn that amount of gas?

If I take the property would I have to use the company who supplied the tank? ( a local company ) The tank is half full at the moment but I don't know how much it holds. I thought it was an oil tank on my first viewing (should have gone to specsavers! ) so didn't think too much about it but now I know it's LPG that programme is worrying me.
Any help/advice will be much appreciated.

LittleVermin

confusedgranma wrote: »

Could one of you brilliant mathematicians help me? I am about to sign a rental contract on a property with LPG. <snip>
Any help/advice will be much appreciated.

Hi confusedgranma and welcome to the forum!

I don't know any "brilliant mathematicians" on the forum! Maybe they are keeping their heads down!

LPG contracts cannot last for more than 2 years now as a result of the Competition Commission ruling effective since 2009 - but contracts do last for 2 years, so I guess the contract will be with the owner, not with you as the renter. You really need to get a copy of the contract - and particularly look for a clause specifying maximum rate of price rise.

What's the name of the supplier? Someone on the forum may have experience of them.

The owner will have the size of the tank in their docs. Failing which, it should be on a brass plate on the tank - failing which, take a pic and/or measure the tank's length and post that on the forum. Tanks are (I believe) normally 500l, 1000l or 2000l. They can be filled to 85% (to allow for expansion) and you normally ask for a refill at around 20-30% (on the meter on top) though the tank may have a smart gizmo which tells the company when it's getting empty. Of course if you ask the supplier they should be able to tell you the size too!

The cost of LPG is almost twice that of natural gas. Someone will no doubt be able to do the arithmetic to calculate how many litres of LPG you'd have used in your present house to produce 11,006 kwh of energy. Here's a useful webpage giving relative costs of energy (in pence per kwh): http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison/ They are using 90% efficiency for the boiler - ho hum! condensing boilers are supposed to give this but older boilers may be down to 75%, I'm told.

Surely the owner will have some idea of the LPG bills the present renter had?

If you watched the "Don't Get Done, Get Dom" programme on Flogas be reassured that though LPG is expensive most of the companies have fewer complaints about them on this forum!

Good luck!

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