Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

LittleVermin

359282 wrote: »

Hi, have you thought about replacing lpg with a heat pump. even though heatpumps ar not the answer to all ills, the cost of LPG means that there are savings to be had in running costs.

If you look back in this thread you'll find quite a lot of discussion - with figures - about relative costs of LPG, GSHP, ASHP, oil, wood burners, wood pellet burners, electricity on various tariffs, insulation, etc. Also links to research findings. People will find lots of info on heat pumps in the various threads on heat pumps: I'd recommend the posts by "Geotherm" who uses and installs GSHP in Italy (and has no interest in selling them to UK users of MSE!). There are also knowledgeable people posting about ASHP on its two active threads.

I presume you are not wanting to sell heat pumps to LPG users. Are you?

If you've got some up-to-date info - reliable info - on relative installation and running costs, independently verified, please give us a link!

LittleVermin

Talking to an LPG supplier last week - apparently last year three times as much LPG was traded as was used in the UK.


Maybe the wholesale price of LPG won't go down in the summer as much as was usual pre-2010. Not that wholesale price falls are reflected in most users' bills!

It would be good to see a Platts plot of prices for the last few years.


PS Last day for submissions to OFT is this Friday

- see http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=43679236&postcount=947 for details.

No doubt the major suppliers have had their PR boys (and girls) saying what a wonderful job they do ... and how they kept deliveries going all through the Arctic weather. Blah, blah. And their prices are so reasonable - and fair. And their customer service ... Just a few words from 10% of the users of this forum would paint a slightly different picture.

HateLPG

There is an interesting article regarding energy pricing and competition on the main MSE site: Guest Comment: The problem with energy firms

It's really about on-grid companies (gas and electricity), but a lot of the points hold true for the off-grid bulk LPG supply sector too. And as most people on this thread have electricity anyway, still relevant from that perspective.

LittleVermin

I've mentioned buying bulk LPG from Mole Valley Farmers several times since a first post on 2nd November. HateLPG has also posted on buying LPG through various farmers' co-ops e.g. here. These firms do NOT come up on the UKLPG supplier search.

This week I talked to one of MVF's people who handles LPG - so this is up-to-date and authoritative.

1. You can buy through MVF no matter where you live i.e. though their stores are in the south their membership is throughout the country and the Channel Islands.

2. You need to join MVF as a member for £10 pa. They have 30 thousand members who benefit from 'Mole Valley Plus'. You can even buy a £150 life membership in MVF - which is returned to you/your estate when you exit MVF/life (maybe something for your loved ones to look forward to!)

3. MVF have deals with Calor, Flogas and Shell (Calor and Shell through 3rd parties).

4. Current Calor price through MVF is 49.5ppl. There is no cap, and you'd be billed by MVF, though Calor would own your tank. My contact reckoned the price was a few pence better than an individual user would get quoted.

5. Flogas's current price through MVF is 46ppl, guaranteed for 3 months. No cap. You'd be billed by Flogas direct.

6. She couldn't give me a current price for Shell.

7. She also mentioned that the majors used to quote a price for MVF members which had remained fixed for a long time, but prices were more changeable recently ("upwards" I suggested).

Mole Valley Plus: http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf/info/farming/Mole_Valley_Plus_Introduction

If you're a member you'll get a discount off all their prices - and from firms they have an agreement with (e.g. for building supplies, tyres and electricity), and if you have a landholding number you'll get an extra per cent off.

If anyone goes through MVF please let us know the deal you get on LPG. Last November mixit1 posted that his/her price for Flogas dropped from 45ppl to 30ppl .. but that was a very long time ago in LPG terms.

Best wishes,
LittleVermin

PS They also have good deals on vermin eradicators! Large and small.

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LittleVermin

I've posted this link from Notts Energy Partnership in other threads.

http://www.nottenergy.com/energy-costs-comparison3

The figures are for 26th May and you can register to receive updates.

'Fuels' include electricity, mains gas, logs, pellets, bulk LPG, gas cylinders, oils, coals, GSHP and ASHP.

You'll need to tweak the figures for your own fuel costs, and boiler efficiency. And also allow for maintenance costs, cost of renting bulk LPG tank (if relevant), etc. These figures are for running costs. New installations, possible grants, FITs, etc are NOT in the info - but lots of stuff elsewhere on MSE. And people commented when I posted this in other threads (sometimes with added info) - here, here, and here.

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frankie

LittleVermin wrote: »

This week I talked to one of MVF's people who handles LPG - so this is up-to-date and authoritative.

1. You can buy through MVF no matter where you live i.e. though their stores are in the south their membership is throughout the country and the Channel Islands.

2. You need to join MVF as a member for £10 pa. They have 30 thousand members who benefit from 'Mole Valley Plus'. You can even buy a £150 life membership in MVF - which is returned to you/your estate when you exit MVF/life (maybe something for your loved ones to look forward to!)

3. MVF have deals with Calor, Flogas and Shell (Calor and Shell through 3rd parties).

4. Current Calor price through MVF is 49.5ppl. There is no cap, and you'd be billed by MVF, though Calor would own your tank. My contact reckoned the price was a few pence better than an individual user would get quoted.

5. Flogas's current price through MVF is 46ppl, guaranteed for 3 months. No cap. You'd be billed by Flogas direct.

6. She couldn't give me a current price for Shell.

7. She also mentioned that the majors used to quote a price for MVF members which had remained fixed for a long time, but prices were more changeable recently ("upwards" I suggested).

Mole Valley Plus: http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf/info/farming/Mole_Valley_Plus_Introduction

If you're a member you'll get a discount off all their prices - and from firms they have an agreement with (e.g. for building supplies, tyres and electricity), and if you have a landholding number you'll get an extra per cent off.


Best wishes,
LittleVermin


..

Hi

Been a while!!

I can concur with the info re MVF. I got exactly the same info.

I'm just about to renew my contract with Calor. Current pricing is 45.4 ppl ex VAT. It does better the MVF quote. Also got a quote from Shell they wany 49ppl Ex VAT and won't budge. Extra fuels require me to use much more gas than I do at present so become non-viable for me. I only use about 1200 l pa!

Didn't get much out of Calor except a £50 off next fill and sad to say the 6 month 'cap' is now 3 months. They seem very set, I think it's because I'm on a fairly good rate for my consumption (so far!!).

Have about 30% in tank so hope to fill up before Autumn rise and will last through winter (hope)

PS Didn't even consider Flogas, even through MVF, just don't trust Flogas!

LittleVermin

frankie wrote: »

......I'm just about to renew my contract with Calor. Current pricing is 45.4 ppl ex VAT. It does better the MVF quote. .......... I only use about 1200 l pa!

Didn't get much out of Calor except a £50 off next fill and sad to say the 6 month 'cap' is now 3 months. They seem very set, I think it's because I'm on a fairly good rate for my consumption (so far!!)......

Good morning, frankie! I doubt if it's worth going to MVF and asking them to get Calor to beat your personal quote because....

If you use 1200l at 45.4ppl that'll cost £544.80 - but take off the £50 sweetener and it's only £494.80 - which for 1200l is 41.23ppl. ....which sounds as if you're being subsidised by all the high rollers out there who contribute generously to Calor's bottom line.

I'm sure you've done the maths! And I'm making some assumptions, of course.

Good luck!

PS I believe your maximum fill will be around 800l in your 1200l tank (from ~25% to ~85%* ... you tried to explain this to another poster - twice!) so that'll be 800l at 45.4ppl less £50 ...or 39.15ppl for your first fill! And for your second fill in the 2 yr contract the price will be .....? Best not go there!

* 20% to 87% to be precise! I've found the posts here and here. {OP changed username}. But I expect Calor will bend their rules and fill when you're at 25% if they want you to sign a 2 yr contract!

LittleVermin

The weekly LPG price for vehicles is, I guess, probably the best proxy for wholesale prices - and it's dropped:

http://www.whatgas.com/lpg-graph.aspx


But not by much! It is still higher than anytime before last December.

People post that it's best to negotiate a new contract in the summer "when the price drops".

BTW, Extra Gas's price is now 47.95 (but they reserve the right to increase their £63 above-ground tank rental if first year usage is below 2500l - as frankie hints at).
Carver's price is 48.2 (with "agreed discount off list price" - but no rental cost mentioned, and they only deliver within 40 miles of Wolverhampton).
Lister still has 50ppl subject "less any discount for higher quantity users" (their posted price hasn't changed since before March).

frankie

Seem like Extrafuel have increased lpg by 1pence per litre for July over the June price.

Does this signal a potential rise from the big suppliers I wonder?

LittleVermin

frankie wrote: »

Seem like Extrafuel have increased lpg by 1pence per litre for July over the June price.

Does this signal a potential rise from the big suppliers I wonder?

I spoke Mark Slack at Extra Fuel. The calendar on their website http://www.extrafuel.co.uk/ automatically updated to July - but they didn't post their July price - 50.22 ppl - until after lunch because all their potential wholesale suppliers didn't give them their prices first thing.

They said they had just the one June price - 47.95 ppl - so that's a 2.27 ppl price rise this month.