Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

SD-253

HateLPG wrote: »

The current OFT Off Mains study (see post #820 for more details) is a perfect opportunity to put forward such concerns and any viable alternatives that you might consider worthy of consideration.

Linked to the wholesale price??????

SD-253

HateLPG wrote: »

Yes. And No!

• If you have a truly variable price contract and get hit by a steep price rise or rises (such as the two recently imposed by Flogas), consider asking your supplier for a full written and qualified justification, with supporting figures. If they won't supply this, or the justification they supply is not reasonable, give serious consideration to making a formal complaint to Consumer Direct. Even if you are with a supplier that supposedly tracks the wholesale price - it is probably still worth considering whether any increase is justified. Contract law does not allow contracts that enable suppliers to impose unfettered and unjustified price rises .

[*]
[*]USURY THE PARACTISE OF CHARGING UNREASONABLY HIGH INTEREST RATE (the law and definition in the UK)
[*]Originaly usury just meant charging interest on a loan as all the main religions forbade it and of course that is what it still mean to muslims. But in the UK judges have in the past ruled that any excessive prices where the customers has no choice but to pay if he wants the service is ilegal.....usury

HateLPG

SD-253 wrote: »

• USURY THE PARACTISE OF CHARGING UNREASONABLY HIGH INTEREST RATE (the law and definition in the UK)
• Originaly usury just meant charging interest on a loan as all the main religions forbade it and of course that is what it still mean to muslims. But in the UK judges have in the past ruled that any excessive prices where the customers has no choice but to pay if he wants the service is ilegal.....usury

Quite apart from the large red text, this is relevant how exactly?

We are not talking about interest rates or the lending of money here - we are talking about a simple (if often excessive) charge for goods and services provided!

Mbday

Just to update you on the buying group (see my post #369): Our fixed price of 37.9p came to an end on 1 April. I was advised (verbally) what the new variable price would be. However, we then received news of the 4p increase, which I queried on behalf of the group because it was in breach of the cap. Bottom line is that we have now been offered 44.5p (variable), though this will inevitably increase in the coming months.

bobhawke

SD-253 wrote: »

Read slowly
"UK judges have in the past ruled that any excessive prices where the customers has no choice but to pay if he wants the service is ilegal.....usury"

Therefore



is covered by usury???????

I often forget hate that you are the moderator of this forum......am I right? and that you do not alowe large or red letters but I forget so I apoligise

The OFT made suppliers change the terms of their contract because they were unfair and allowed for unfettered price increases. As far as I know they all changed them to include some clause that said any of their price increases would be justified in relation to the world market / platts / brent crude prices

HateLPG wrote: »

I've just found this on the OFT website: http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consumer-enforcement/traders/26/1/ It makes for very interesting reading.

Basically, in 2005, Flogas were required by the OFT to substantially rewrite their Domestic LPG supply contract. At the time, the OFT stated that it still had reservations with regards to the price increase terms. Specifically:

If you are currently under contract with Flogas, I would check your contract very carefully. If the price cap clause has magically "disappeared" from your current contract, I would suggest writing to the OFT as a matter of urgency; I would anyway, check your contract carefully to ensure that it still complies with the OFT requirements in all other areas - you may well find that if they hit you with an increase of 7ppl, you might be able to extricate yourself from the contract (but you'll have to move fast and inform sharpish of your intentions and in writing. Given some of the recent reports about Flogas "losing" paperwork, make doubly sure that you use delivery that ensures a dated signature as proof of delivery!

I would also seriously question whether the OFT would consider it remotely reasonable for a letter to be sent out such that it arrives on or after the day that price rise comes into effect, and I'm sure they would be interested to hear from any users who have been hit with this latest price rise.

It's interesting to note that BP were also required to revise their supply contract in 2005, and again, the OFT had reservations over their price increase terms (http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consumer-enforcement/traders/1476/1/).

There is no record on the OFT site of any other LPG supplier having been required to amend their contracts.

Please also see my later post on this matter (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=40237294&postcount=590) before writing

DAVID.T_3

SD-253 wrote: »

Why do you have to wait till it is only got 20% left? 400 litre delivery is normaly the minimum?

There is not a "normal" minimum delivery some companies say 800 lts, a lot 700, a few 500 and even less 400

DAVID.T_3

SD-253 wrote: »

Did they ask how much you use? I think I remember you saying that you are not spoiled for choice where you are just 3 big ones? Negotiate negotiate always worth it? of course as I say overestimating is what i would do?

overestimating will just get alarm bells ringing at your gas company, any gas company is quite aware what gas a 3/4/5/ bed house uses, and what to add on for your swimming pool!! If I hear a figure that seems artificially high I will presume you only are trying to cover a very small usage.

It is best just to give the facts as they are and shop round for the best deal.

frankie

DAVID.T wrote: »

There is not a "normal" minimum delivery some companies say 800 lts, a lot 700, a few 500 and even less 400

I agree, but, I just couldn't be bothered to respond to the earlier reply on this regard my post! My own supplier, Calor, have a 20% delivery margin.

By the way, had a response back form OFT, just acknowledging my response to them. Once again, can I urge all lpg users' who have concerns, to at least send a response to the OFT.

SD-253

frankie wrote: »

I agree, but, I just couldn't be bothered to respond to the earlier reply on this regard my post! My own supplier, Calor, have a 20% delivery margin.

By the way, had a response back form OFT, just acknowledging my response to them. Once again, can I urge all lpg users' who have concerns, to at least send a response to the OFT.

1800 tank maximum fill 1530 litres?
20% of 1530 litres is 306 litres.
Is that what you are saying frankie (306 litre delivery) or have I got that wrong? It apears to be what you are saying.

SD-253

DAVID.T wrote: »

overestimating will just get alarm bells ringing at your gas company, any gas company is quite aware what gas a 3/4/5/ bed house uses, and what to add on for your swimming pool!!.

You are assuming they come out to you? yet it appears lots of people get a quote over the phone or the internet. So how do you know what size house they have? Does a person who is disabled and at home all day use the same amount of LPG as someone who is at work all day......I have just compared myself with my neighbour in identical houses.

DAVID.T wrote: »

If I hear a figure that seems artificially high I will presume you only are trying to cover a very small usage.

And exactly what do you do about it? I would apreciate an answer to the latter please.
As stated I estimate based on what I used in the first year plus a bit as it was a warm year.