Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

HateLPG

Interesting reading.......

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/article/9098/bp-denies-delaying-lpg-deliveries-to-maximise-prices.html

HateLPG

In the light of the current supply and distirbution issues being faced by many domestic LPG users, Appendix C to the Competition Commission enquiry makes for interesting reading (http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/prov_find_app_c.pdf)

Sadly, it has been somewhat (to use the trendy jargon) "redacted", but a little bit of judicious digging can shed light on the Map of UK depot locations (on page 9). The key should, I believe, read as follows:

• Calor: red circle;
• Flogas: Light Blue Cross;
• BP: Orange Cross;
• Shell: Purple Cross;
• Other Suppliers: Black Star;

If anyone knows any different, please let me know, but I have verified most of these on Google Earth, so I'm 99% confident

I think in general, the annex gives a better understanding of how the LPG supply chain operates; The Depot Location Map will give a better idea of where your gas is (likely to be) coming from and where the supply chain is likely to be stretched (bear in mind, the map was complied a few years back, prior to the CC ruling, so the picture WILL have changed a bit since then).

Anyway, hope this is of some use.

SD-253

Now this post may sound a little harsh but I think it has to be said: - far too many people have left it to the last minute to refill there tanks, far far too long. Now of course this may involve simply not having the cash available but for most it is simply an attempt to keep there money in the bank for as long as possible. OK in certain situation but not in this case. Keep your tank at or near full always refill when you have used 400 liters or if they offer it have them fill when passing. I personally use regular saver accounts or at least accounts which I do not have easy access to, nothing linked to your ordinary bank account to save up for the gas. This way I have the money available when needed as it happens I have not needed it because of a free supply of wood at the moment so I used the money for something else. Again people are clearly leaving it to long to refill and there is no way that LPG companies are capable of meeting the demand, nor should they as having enough tankers and drivers to meet sudden increase in demand would mean that tankers and drivers would remain idle for large parts of the year giving them another excuse to raise prices and not unfair one. Keep the tank topped up!!!!

cairndog

We dont all have control over when we're topped up (mentioned in other posts ) Calor get an estimate of our tank contents via a "thingy" on our tank and they decide when we get a refill. As we're on direct debit to spread the cost they hold all the cards.

longforgotten

So once you have placed your order how long is considered reasonable to wait before you get the gas delivered ?

Brandeberryj, will be taking your advice and check if they will deliver 'whenever they pass' .

frankie

brandeberryj wrote: »

Now this post may sound a little harsh snip ....Keep the tank topped up!!!!

Well, I for one do not have a say of when my tank can be topped up. Calor will not look at ordering new gas until tank levels are at/or below 20% (officially). However, speaking to my account manager just before December, she said to reorder at 30% (crystal ball!)

You can of course give a false reading but in my opinion that would be selfish, bit like panic buying up all the bread on the shelf, and sod anybody else.

I used to be on the telemetry system but removed it as I considered at the time (when it was first introduced, £50 or so bribe) Calor was using it to 'top up' just as prices increased so filling with pricier gas. I did contact them when this happened one January and they let me have the top up of about 400 lts at the old price. At that time I was considering running the tank to empty for the summer to look at alternative ways of heating.

So, in essence, it is no good 'advising' bulk tank users to keep topped up when there is little choice in the matter for the majority of us. Certainly you have to reorder at recommended levels though.

longforgotten

Frankie, once you place an order with Calor how long does it take to get a delivery please ?

LittleVermin

I'm with Extra Gas (based in Manchester) refilled here in Cornwall by Flogas. ("re-order at 20%").

Ordered on-line on Wed 29th (first working day after Christmas) when 16%. Delivery within "ten working days" - i.e by 13th Jan.

Delivered today, Monday 3rd.

So, despite comment on this forum that I would have problems in bad weather having a sub-contractor (Flogas) fill my tank - so far no problem.

Interestingly, 1) Flogas driver said he was on the engineering side but was helping out to keep the tankers on the road, delivering, so the regular drivers could get time off. They ran double shifts last week.

...2) Flogas, Shell and BP all fill their tankers from each others depots (at least down here in SW). Calor not part of this ("refuses" he said). (Flogas depot Buckfastleigh, BP Launceston, Shell St Austell. Buckfastleigh refilled by 4 22 ton tankers each day from Fawley).

....3) When I asked about supply problems he said: "Not enough LPG as refineries not making so much petrol and diesel - LPG is just waste"!

So: a post saying good things about Flogas.

PS I hope my next fill will be when Extra Gas's monthly price has dropped! It's 52.01ppl at present. http://www.extrafuel.co.uk/ CORRECTION - just posted 54.27

LittleVermin

link copied from Home heating oil thread:

http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snsc-05806.pdf

Includes this (section 3.2) from the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change:

There have recently been changes to address issues in the LPG market. As a result of concerns about competition in the market for domestic bulk LPG, the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) made a market investigation reference to the Competition Commission (CC) in July 2004. In June 2006, the CC published a report which said that difficulties in switching supplier have inhibited competition. The CC has subsequently devised a package of remedies and has imposed them through two Orders on the industry. The changes were intended to make it easier to switch supplier, and to address the issue of price transparency, as LPG suppliers are required by Orders to provide price quotes on their web sites and by telephone to consumers. The two Orders implementing these remedies have now come into force, and the OFT is monitoring their effectiveness. (my bold)

.. so anyone in contact with their MPs, especially Cons or LD, please tell them that Chris Huhne, the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change got this wrong - or else all the suppliers (apart from Extra Gas) are breaking the Orders. Having skim-read the Orders I think Chris Huhne got it wrong.

HateLPG

LittleVermin wrote: »

...changes were intended to make it easier to switch supplier, and to address the issue of price transparency, as LPG suppliers are required by Orders to provide price quotes on their web sites and by telephone...

Fascinating - I'd not picked up on that one before - will have to re-read the order. Or is this just our politicos and Civil Servants getting in a muddle with their briefing note?

I suspect it could be a double edged sword, though - I noticed one on a site yesterday (can't remember which - will make a forum post if I can find it again) that basically said "Our 'Price' is 50 some odd pence per litre, but we're happy to do a deal if you are a high user etc". I.e. there's still no such thing as a "tariff", and they probably are complying with the CC order, but if you just accept the "advertised" price, you are likely paying over the odds.

I also wonder whether deep and careful digging of the Calor/Flogas/Shell/BP sites might actually reveal a price - the www equivalent of:

"But the [STRIKE]plans[/STRIKE] prices were on display ..."
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a flashlight."
"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"
"Yes," said [STRIKE]Arthur[/STRIKE] the LPG User, "yes I did. They were on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."