Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

LittleVermin

Bethmiss said:

.... Thanks for info on daily charge. They definitely didn't tell Mum about Increase, and it might have been a genuine mistake so I'll query it on phone first.  Low Standing Charge  was one of the reasons we moved to JGas from Flogas - Flogas was the other!  JGas kept price at 28ppl right through two year contract, and beyond, so quite good to us. I'd prefer to stay with them, if I can get price down a bit.  Whats a NDA?! Thanks.

I really doubt that a competent company increases its standing charge by (exactly!) 50% by mistake! I think I'd read up the Unfair Trading Regs and be able to quote (e.g.) "section 2b on..." (you need to do it - I've not read them for years - but they have been very useful before). Of course if they sent out a new contract for agreement and signing with the new charge I do'n think you have much grounds - caveat emptor (you/ your mum should have read it before signing). Yes, sure, say you'd like to stay with them as they kept the price per litre the same, etc. Mention historic low prices currently etc........I don't know how many potential suppliers you have in Aberdeenshire (check with UKLPG) - there may be some farm co-ops you could try (even Woldlink - in Lincolnshire, does deals nationally)..Many farm co-ops are just happy with money going through the till (just like LPG suppliers keeping volumes up ...and doing some cheap deals to ensure this, cushioned by cash-cow metered estates and loyal, little old ladies they fleece).. NDAs - Non-Disclosure Agreements....I spent my career working as a legal person for slimy individuals in Washington and Hollywood (my god, NO!) so these are bread and butter.... and cuddly Flo uses them too! (forum users helped someone sort something with Little Miss Flo ... then the LPG user refused to tell us the outcome. Ditto with someone who got help from a major consumer advice column).

LittleVermin

JerryW said:

Bethmiss said:

...  Whats a NDA?! Thanks.

Hi Bethmiss

.. Littlevermin is quite right .... and if JGas are reasonable people 
...

Good luck & keep us posted. ...... I find polite but persistent refusal to be fobbed off usually pays dividends

Bethmisss - Jerry and I are saying the same thing. If you do a search on JGas you'll find forum users' comments - but I believe they have been (at least generally - I'd need to check!) positive....which is always nice in the lovely, friendly LPG jungle with its lovely transparent market hidden in a shady clearing. The increase in standing charge per year is twenty quid - from 40 to 60. £60 is, I believe, a pretty standard figure for an above-ground tank (again, I haven't checked recently. I pay £75 ...but that's offset another way).  Apologies - typo alert: "with the new charge I do'n think you have much grounds" of course I meant "....don't...". An alert for Jerry's post pinged up just as I pressed 'send' for my post. As a general rule of thumb the smaller suppliers employ humans (all the tanker drivers I've talked to are humans - really useful source of info about what's going on!) but the majors seem to employ sharks (yes, in the jungle!) in call centres, offices...who seem to make promises, don't put them in writing, forget stuff.... you get the picture.... and just occasionally users have managed to get back big sums for contractual breaches and overcharging (£1k in one case... which wasn't hidden by a NDA!). Jerry - thanks for compliment! Returned!

Ozzysmate

I'd been with Woldlink since Feb 15 and was very pleased with everything about them, pleasant over the phone and very keen pricing. Before that I'd been ripped off in turn by Flogas (previously British Gas) and Avanti (previously Shell). My orders to Woldlink were fulfilled by Flogas and my tank was taken over by them. I can't remember a contract with them but pretty certain there was none with Woldlink.

Jan this year and I get a warning letter from Woldlink to say that Flogas are refusing to supply Woldlink customers and we need to go with a supplier direct. I opted for Avanti with a two year fixed price I trust them as far as I could throw them so we'll see what happens. From what I understood at the time, this applied to all Flogas supplied, Woldlink customers. As I had a full tank, I've not needed to order a top up.
With a bit of luck, once the cold weather arrives, Rishi Sunak will introduce a 'Heat it to Beat it' scheme but that's for dreamers.   

JerryW

When my 2 year "Flogas via Woldlink" contract expired in October 2018, Woldlink said that their best offer was via Avanti and I should contract with them direct.. which I did although I had been very happy with Woldlink. I have to say that Avanti have been excellent since then, with the sole exception of trying to put the price up unfairly in year 2, see above. You can manage your account and order gas online via their website, and they are happy to leave the ordering to you and just charge per tank delivered rather than via a budget account. When an order is placed they turn up within a week. So I am happy to recommend Avanti based on my experience, provided you screw the price down as hard as possible and ideally, get a two year fix.

Peoples, the more information this forum has, the more useful it becomes so please everyone, do tell us all how you get wiith contract renewals, disputes and anything else that might help.

How I wish we could get information about the Platts LPG index or similar indicators of wholesale pricing. Now that would be useful!

LittleVermin

JerryW said:

...

Peoples, the more information this forum has, the more useful it becomes so please everyone, do tell us all how you get with contract renewals, disputes and anything else that might help.

.....

CONTRACTS ...some years ago some of us collected scans of as many different contracts as people were prepared to send. Personal info, even prices blacked out.... We did this via private messages. We then went to the CMA - Competition and Markets Authority (maybe it was the previous version?) - direct to the person overseeing the LPG 'market'. Upshot was that various companies (one notable major - guess which!) voluntarily* modified their contracts. Is anyone willing to organise this, please? I'll happily send a scan of my current contract.............*wonderful what major companies will do 'voluntarily'!...especially when it's pointed out by a govt body that they are ignoring a previous ruling by the relevant govt body (in this case its predecessor).

Bethmiss

Thank you all very much for comments, information, and advice.  The only reason JGas sent out a new contract for signing is because I asked them to put the account into my name rather than Mum's.Nothing signed with JGas since end of October 2016, and they did keep price down to 28ppl for a long time after contract out.  The price we paid for last few deliveries was 36.7ppl, and that's the price on the new contract. I think that's too high for present oil price situation. I've heard all the reasons why LPG price doesn't necessarily come down when oil prices are low ........!, but I still think I should be able to get it cheaper than that.
I emailed Woldlink last week sometime, asking if they supplied to Aberdeenshire and at what price I've heard nothing so far. The Flogas driver we used to have was aware of prices customers were paying, and felt aggrieved for the ones being ripped off. I think he may have told some to go back and try for a better deal - he is no longer with Flo so I'm not putting his job at risk. 
JGas minimum order was 700 L, which was something else we liked about them.
I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks.

Andrew1066

For interest in my continuing saga with Flogas I submitted another complaint in writing to them as below. I’ll let you know if I get any response. 

Dear Sir,

Three months ago I contacted Flogas to ask about a bulk LPG tank refill. 

I was told the price would be increased 5p (the maximum cap In my contract) to 38p per litre.

I highlighted this doesn’t meet the price increase requirements as set out in my contract because of changes in the commercial environment including, but not limited to consistently decreasing costs of wholesale gas. 

I was told somebody would call me back shortly. 

Having not heard anything for three months  I then called at13.54 on 5th August and spoke to Debbie. 

I went through the same process and she promised somebody would come back to me within 24 hours. 

48 hours later having heard nothing, I called again at 13.02 on the 7th August and spoke to Tom. He put me on hold whilst he said he would look into the matter and then cut me off. 

I phoned back shortly after on the 7th of August still and again spoke to Tom he said it’s been escalated to customer care and they would come back to me in 3 to 5 working days. He also said they could’ve increased the price by 12p per litre so I am lucky which according to my contract is an outright lie. 

It is now six working days and I’ve heard nothing. 

Your customer service has been non-existent. 

Indeed it is clear your just trying to ignore your customers and not just me, as this is also communicated on many of the online forums on your organisation. 

I’m again escalating this as a formal complaint in writing and I am also escalating this to the ombudsman. 

I would like also you to explain please, why your employees consistently make commitments to your customers yet fail to deliver on them every single time?

Tinhat

Hi Andrew,
put the same comments on Trustpilot, Flogas Facebook page and their twitter feed - then you see some action. 🙂

Andrew1066

Thank you. 

Posted on trust pilot. 

LittleVermin

Andrew1066 said:

Thank you. 

Posted on trust pilot. 

https://uk.trustpilot.com/reviews/5f38cf8e9cc22a0600ccb1d8