Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

LittleVermin

bintyandthebeast wrote: »

Hi everybody, I'll try to outline what I did with my LPG bulk metered estate to get out of our contract....................!

“Thank you for your query. Currently Calor do not offer a buy out clause in the contract the both you and the residents have. I have briefly discussed this with a colleague, and will try to discuss this further with our legal team and senior sales manager. Please could I ask for your patience with replying to this specific part of your enquiry.

[FONT=&quot]I would like to discuss the details from your below email in detail, perhaps best initially on the phone. However before our conversation it may help if you have obtained various quoted from a number of competitors. There are a number of points and therefore subsequent questions that will be pertinent to ask.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Calor will always try to remain as competitive as possible with its fellow suppliers. While we do not disclose any of our costings with our competitors, through my job role I am in a position to compare prices that Calor's competitors are offering Calor's customers and prices that these competitors are supplying their existing customers at. I would guess the prices that your be quoted will be around 39 to 41 ppl from my experience over the past 3 months. However, these will be introductory rates, and I would hypothesise that this supply rate would increase dramatically after any exclusivity period has expired. The reason for this is that from May - June 2010, our competitors were supplying their metered estates at 49 ppl and above. I have talked to customers who are currently being supplied at 58 ppl. I would suggest that these artificially low introductory offers are aimed at attracting new business, and the supplier would manage their margins by modifying their existing competitors price of off set this. Please see the below link detailing how competitors have increased their supply price by 15 ppl since January 2011 I would highlight the last 5 comments on this website.[/FONT]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1003291&page=38

While I understand that of the offers listed below includes a 2.5 ppl price increase capping clause, I would highly recommend viewing any relevant clauses that may also apply to this on the terms and conditions. The reason for this is that Calor are the only LPG supplier with a similar clause (all be it 3.5 ppl per six months), but has not additional clause allowing (with justification) Calor increasing our price by above 3.5 ppl without allowing you to switch.

[FONT=&quot]Below are extracts from a company that offers existing Calor customers a 2.5 ppl capping clause if they switch (I do not believe their existing customers have this in their contracts.[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]5.4 Following expiry of the offer price, or where no offer price is specified and a variable price is in effect, X shall be entitled to increase the prevailing price from time to time upon notification to the buyer up to a maximum of 2.5 ppl (exclusive of VAT...) (the "Maximum Price Increase"). subject to clause 5.6, if X increases the price by any value that exceeds the Maximum Price Increase, the buyer may within 14 days of receiving notice of the relevant price increase, terminate the Agreement by giving 42 days' prior written notice to X. If the buyer does not give notice to terminate within such 14 day period, the Buyer shall be deemed to have accepted the price increase [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]5.6 The Buyer will not be entitled to terminate the agreement under clause 5.4 if the value exceeding maximum Price Increase reflects an equivalent increase in the cost of LPG Gas as measured by reference to the propane market. The market benchmark used will be the spot rate for large propane cargos shipped to North West Europe. To rely on this clause 5.6 B Will notify the buyer of the current benchmark rate and the historic benchmark rate at the time X's standard retail price was last changed so as to demonstrate that the value exceeding the Maximum Price increase is no higher than the increase in the cost of LPG Gas.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Using clause 5.6 of the above extract, this LPG supplier could have increased your supply rates by a considerable value during the past two winters. I would highlight that from August 2009 to January 2010 the wholesale cost of LPG increase by 100%. I also understand that other suppliers offering similar price capping clauses have a similar clause relating to the cost of Oil prices. Following these clauses, the above supplier would be able to increase above the 2.5 ppl price clause, without breaking any exclusivity agreement. The above terms and conditions were available from the suppliers web site.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Currently the LPG market has experienced two winters where the wholesale cost of LPG has been at unprecedented highs. Normally during the winter these prices are dramatically higher than during the summer, allowing Calor to buy LPG in bulk and store this cheaper LPG gas to be used at times when the wholesale cost of LPG. in light of recent events, Calor is still paying peak winter rates, and this has lead to the recent price increase. As a result, of this your price, while higher than December 2009, in fact remaines very competative compared to the LPG prisinc in the UK.”[/FONT]


*****************
Thanks to bintyandthebeast for taking the time to give a lot of the story. Dogged persistence can pay off - even to the extent of getting a metered estate out of its contract and free to choose the cheapest supplier and the best terms. The OFT reported a year or two back that a few percent - 4 or 5 (I forget the figure) - of individual users had changed supplier as a result of the freeing up of the 'market' by the Competition Commission Order effective from April 2009 - but for metered estates the figure was only a fraction of 1% (was it 0.1 or 0.2%? I cannot find the source in the OFT docs so please don't quote!).

The Office of Fair Trading's Metered Estate Order is here: http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/notice_order_metered_estates.pdf
..

HateLPG

Still moving the right way

Poundnote

LPG Price graph has proved very useful in my negotiations on renewing my contract for 2 years.

I note that Extra Fuel no longer publish their prices. I haver have come across a very useful site which may be of use - you can even sign up to get a monthly email when the info is ready:-

nottenergydotcom and you will find it under energy cost comparison.

Hmm not allowed to post a link as a new user so hope it works.

AdrianC

Poundnote wrote: »

LPG Price graph has proved very useful in my negotiations on renewing my contract for 2 years.

I note that Extra Fuel no longer publish their prices. I haver have come across a very useful site which may be of use - you can even sign up to get a monthly email when the info is ready:-

nottenergydotcom and you will find it under energy cost comparison.

Hmm not allowed to post a link as a new user so hope it works.

http://nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison/

LittleVermin

Poundnote wrote: »

LPG Price graph has proved very useful in my negotiations on renewing my contract for 2 years.

I note that Extra Fuel no longer publish their prices. ......

Sounds like you've got a better deal on Skye than before. Is it still from Calorgas? What's the deal, please? [your previous post http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64716501&postcount=2240 ].

Extrafuel still publish their prices - but they've redesigned their website at https://www.extrafuel.co.uk/ and you now have to click on "View LPG Prices" ..on the bulk LPG tank. For the record their current price is 44.58ppl, self-own 39.58ppl and fixed price 42.50ppl.
..

Poundnote

Provided I signed a 2 year contract with Calor, the price will reduce to 48.0p ex vat fixed for 1 year plus £100 credited to my account. After a year any increase is limited to a maximum 3.5p in any 6 month period. I was informed that there is no differentation in price because I live on Skye.

Service from Calor is second to none and their telemetry system works a treat so no fear of running out of fuel in the Winter months.

Flogas come to Skye about twice a week and got a quote of 41.0p and having read about poor customer service I decided not to proceed.

J_B

I've been on my annual pilgrimage to the 'Home building and renovating show' at the NEC today

Last year I secured a 2 year deal with Avantigas at 42ppl.

This year's offer price is 43ppl

Mister_G

I've just filled up with 1000 litres at 45ppl from my local supplier HBS in Hampshire. They have maintained this price for 3 years now and do not charge a tank rental.

However, a flyer has just dropped through my letterbox from Lima Gas in Southampton. They are offering a tracker rate of 38ppl or 42ppl fixed for 12 months. Their tank rental is £60 per year, but they waive that for new customers for the first year.

When I get through this 1000 litres I may be changing!

LittleVermin

Mister_G wrote: »

I've just filled up with 1000 litres at 45ppl from my local supplier HBS in Hampshire. They have maintained this price for 3 years now and do not charge a tank rental.

However, a flyer has just dropped through my letterbox from Lima Gas in Southampton. They are offering a tracker rate of 38ppl or 42ppl fixed for 12 months. Their tank rental is £60 per year, but they waive that for new customers for the first year.

When I get through this 1000 litres I may be changing!

Checking HateLPG's chart for the last 24 months shows your 45ppl from HBS to be a good deal! And no rental fee!


...and then you get offered what may be an even better deal from Lima Gas!


There doesn't seem to be a green-for-envy emoticon!


(chart here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64962441&postcount=2244 )


PS Just seen that Extra Fuel's fixed price is now 42.50ppl plus £63 p.a. rental - and their tracker has gone up this month to 45.48ppl (40.48ppl if you own your own tank).
..

thozza

Just had a delivery of 700l at 43.7ppl exc. VAT from Northern Energy (after negotiating of course!).