Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

Frank_Cannon

Don't expect BP to be any easier to deal with. I've been a customer for the last four years in our rented house. In that time, they have yet to send me a single invoice showing me what I'm paying thenm for. They've sent statements, and with each delivery I've asked for a breakdown of the price they quote me. Invariably, they realise they've "made a mistake", and they've asked for too much money.
They are currently demanding £30, yet neither of the two statements they've sent in justification add up!
Their staff are rude and unhelpful, and (if you're a bit mutton, like me) very hard to understand.
I'd avoid them at all costs.
We can only break the contract (if at all) with our Ladlords agreement. We are seriously thinking of moving rather than have to deal with them any more. They're that bad.

lpgrrrrr

Well of course EDF had got their knickers in a twist so all those figures are wrong- the price per unit, if you want to use storage heaters, is 4.64p (equivalent to 32.99ppl). The 4p per unit rate doesn't exist. Still worth thinking about?

lpgrrrrr

To add to the fund of information about bulk lpg pricing, these are the prices I have been quoted this week, for supply in Surrey:

Calor 46.9ppl- a generous 2p reduction!- they obviously don't want my custom, maybe because I didn't let them hike up their price by more than the contractual agreement of 2.5p per year over the last 5 years.

Shell- 38.5ppl fixed 6 months + £60 pa tank rental
Flogas- 36ppl fixed 6 months + £65 pa tank rental
Extrafuel- variable, presently 39.96ppl + £60 tank rental
BP- 38.95ppl fixed 1 year + £40 tank rental

I think I have decided to go with BP as it's fixed for 1 year, and their standard domestic terms are max 2.5ppl increase per 6 months after fixed period ends, or if increase is more than that you can terminate the agreement (clause 6.4) (unless they can prove that the market price has also risen by more than 2.5ppl). I'm going to phone them tomorrow just to check that these standard terms actually apply to MY contract!

Thanks for the warning about BP Frank- forewarned is forearmed! I'll report back when I've got some experience of them. I also intend to keep track of what Extrafuel would have charged me over the next 2 years

LittleVermin

lpgrrrrr wrote: »

Surrey:

Calor 46.9ppl- a generous 2p reduction!- they obviously don't want my custom, maybe because I didn't let them hike up their price by more than the contractual agreement of 2.5p per year over the last 5 years.

<snip>

BP- 38.95ppl fixed 1 year + £40 tank rental

I think I have decided to go with BP as it's fixed for 1 year, and their standard domestic terms are max 2.5ppl increase per 6 months after fixed period ends, or if increase is more than that you can terminate the agreement (clause 6.4) (unless they can prove that the market price has also risen by more than 2.5ppl).

<snip>

lpgrrrr - I cannot see the point of a maximum price rise which they can wriggle out of! It's up to BP to offer you a contract which you'll find attractive enough to accept - and take the consequences if they don't make as much money as they hoped! You kept Calor to the contract you say.

This forum is full of people (me included) moaning about prices going up as world crude prices rose - but rarely coming down as crude prices fell.

BP could say "Terribly sorry, prices have to go up .... blah blah" - and you'd be going lpgrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr through toothless gums!

PS - thanks for all the prices!

lpgrrrrr

Phoned BP this morning- they have come down a bit, to 37.45ppl fixed 1 year, plus £50 of gas free. The max rise of 2.5p per 6 months does apply.
Also phoned Flogas: was told they don't have any cap on price rises after the fixed period.

LittleVermin

Just been phoned by a market research company "acting for a major LPG supplier" - asking who my supplier was. I refused to say who my supplier was (it's now Extra Fuel) - and then found out the survey was commissioned by BP (my former supplier - until June).

LOTS of questions. Seemed a very well-structured suvey (but I'm no expert!).

I was asked, initially, to rank importance of 1) price 2) account benefits 3) customer service 4) brand name 5) problem solving. Later to say which was more important and/or how valuable of various options (e.g. safety certificate twice a year {ho ho - the BP man did not shut my tank valve fully last time so I don't think I'd value a safety certificate from him!}, nectar points, delivery dates and times known in advance, account management on-line, ..and "our retention team will try to match any offers made by another supplier".

But the really interesting one was this. If the price increases by 2p would you 1) do nothing 2) try to get a new quote 3) find a new supplier or 4) change fuel. Can you guess the next question? If the price increases by 4p ..... And then? If the price increases by 6p .....!

I was also asked if I knew about the Competition Commission order.

And how I would like to be approached by potential LPG suppliers: I'm on TPS so that's easy!

I was also asked to rank my present supplier, 1-5, on 1) delivery 2) customer service 3) brand 4) accounts benefits package 5) price.

I finally told them my present supplier - they'd have known anyway! And of course they wanted my age bracket (I guess they guessed my sex) and name (which they presumably knew anyway since they had my phone number).

I also told them that I found my present supplier by using the internet, recommendation and talking to them. I also told the questioner quite a lot extra about BP - including saying that if they'd offered me the deal someone mentioned in this thread (i.e. the previous post) I'd probably still be with them.

Someone in the lpg industry said in June that they thought BP were no longer interested in small users and were going to concentrate on bigger estates and industrial users but this doesn't seem to be the case now - both from this survey and from the deal in the previous post.

Guy asking questions was called Liam, a student, working p/t for a company called, I think, Rag Doll or Ragged Doll though I cannot find it listed.

Sorry about the long post, but I hope it may be helpful in letting others, who are thinking of changing suppliers, know how BP are thinking.

Bruce_GT3

Hi,

I've read the forum thoroughly and thought it was about time I acted!

Sorry about the lenghty post...

I bought a property last August which was previously being supplied by Calor. I phoned them and entered into a 2-year deal with £100 cashback (£50 now, £50 on the anniversary) with a starting price of 38.9ppl. The contract has the "clause 6.2" limiting increases to 3.5p in any 6 month period. The price went up in December '09 (by exactly 3.5ppl :mad:) to 42.4ppl. This was then followed by another letter in May informing me that the price was increasing yet again by 5.5ppl from 1st June.

I rent the tank from Calor at 16.9p per day.

What are my options?

Can I force Calor to observe the 3.5p limit?

Can I terminate the contract due to breach?

If I do terminate will I have to pay the £230+_VAT "uplift" charge, or is this (as some other posters suggest) unenforceable as I would be transferring "ownership" to my new supplier?

I'm in Bedfordshire and the lpg suppliers listed by uklpg for my area are Calor, Flogas and Shell. Is there another way to get gas from say Extrafuel?

TIA,
Bruce

LittleVermin

Bruce_GT3 wrote: »

<snip>
I bought a property last August which was previously being supplied by Calor. I phoned them and entered into a 2-year deal with £100 cashback (£50 now, £50 on the anniversary) with a starting price of 38.9ppl. The contract has the "clause 6.2" limiting increases to 3.5p in any 6 month period. The price went up in December '09 (by exactly 3.5ppl :mad:) to 42.4ppl. This was then followed by another letter in May informing me that the price was increasing yet again by 5.5ppl from 1st June.
<snip>

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for letting us all know about Calor's treatment of you. It's an interesting contrast to some of the deals being offered to entice people to sign up. As I've written before (and it's an obvious point) these good deals are funded, if necessary, by people being fleeced either in year two (or else continuously if they are unaware of the wider situation with the LPG 'market', despite the Competition Commission order effective April 2009).

1. It seems Calor have tried to break their contract with you. Does clause 6.2 offer you the opportunity to terminate the contract if the price rises about the contract figures? Anyway please read lpgrrr's post of 07.09.10 in this thread - and contact OFT (details my post 09.08.10 this thread). There are other posts re Calor, etc and max price rise and posters' successful action - but maybe in other threads (there have been at least 20 bulk LPG threads active this year - groan!). One poster (busybird 16.08.10 LPG/LPG Prices .. thread) had used legal terminology - about a "loss of bargain" - maybe she talked to CAB? Also Hatelpg on 17 and 19.08.10 same thread.

2. Uplift charge? Interesting! The 2 suppliers agree cost when supplier changes. Various posts as you've found. Again, why not tell OFT - and your MP? A contact in the LPG industry told me Calor were trying to make changes difficult - this sounds like an example (so thank you for telling us!). Again, look at Hatelpg's posts.

3. If a price posted on the web each month, related to world spot price and the same price for everyone, attracts you then give Extra Fuel a ring (0161 - 789000 Mark Slack) to see if they will supply you in Bedfordshire. My (positive!) comments on Extra Fuel are elsewhere (mostly on LPG/LPG Prices .. thread): they now supply me. Interestingly if BP, my former supplier, had offered me the deal another poster secured I might well still be with them.

4. If you'd like a list of all the LPG threads I could find please send me a pm. And if you find particularly useful posts please use the 'thanks' button so they get flagged up if anyone does a trawl through individual poster's records (click on the poster's username) - Hatelpg is one who comes to mind!

Good luck!

John aka LittleVermin

HateLPG

Bruce_GT3 wrote: »

Hi,
This was then followed by another letter in May informing me that the price was increasing yet again by 5.5ppl from 1st June.

<snip>

Can I terminate the contract due to breach?

Bruce, check your contract, but if memory serves, you have to notify them within 30 days of the advice of price increase that you wish to terminate the contract. In that case, they will continue to supply at the pre-increase price until termination. If you DON'T do it within 30 days, they view it as an implicit acceptance of the price rise.

HOWEVER, (hoping Calor aren't bright enough to be following this thread) I have on a number of occasions written a stern letter to them, reminding them that they can't increase the price more than a certain amount (as per your contract) and they've backed down. Basically, it is fair to say that they haven't got a CLUE of what their contracts say or MEAN, and just try it on every 6 months or so in the certain knowledge that only a tiny percentage of their 30,000+ customers (and I mean TINY) even bother to READ the small print, let along act on it!

frankie

Hi Bruce

See this thread and posts 104, 109, 123 and 124 for my own experiences:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=319

Challenge them and get either discount or termination of contract which ever suits you best for your needs.