HSBC refuse to refund debit card fraud
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philD_2
Posts: 88 Forumite
Looking for a bit of advice really - are HSBC being reasonable or not?
1. Friends at my house on 15/06 (2 friends i've known for about 4 months whom I refer to as E and J). Housing benefit and JSA cleared in my account around 2 AM on 15/06. Went to Asda with friend J. Friend E stayed at my house. Bought a bottle of booze, pizza and some oven chips - went to the self service checkout and paid by debit card.
2. Returned to my house, Friends J and E shared the booze with me and we had some pizza.
3. Later, friend E became very flirty but I felt my wallet being removed from my pocket. Confronted friend E and asked for my wallet back. Friend E pointed out that my wallet was on the floor. I picked the wallet up and looked at the cards in my wallet. My HSBC debit card was missing.
4. Confronted friend E again, said I would count to ten and if she didn't return the card I would throw them out. Counted to 10, no card so threw them out. Approx time 06:40 on 15/06.
5. Noticed that my mobile phone had also gone from the coffee table. Approx ten minutes later my letterbox opened and my card and phone were posted - I could see the outline of friend E through the glass in front door. I assumed that they'd realised they had been very silly and had thought better of it.
6. Approx 8PM on 15/06 I went to the cash machine and attempted to withdraw £50 which was declined due to insufficient funds. I was surprised so came back to the house and checked internet banking. £470 cash had been taken from the same ATM at 06:44.
7. Phoned the local police and explained what had happened - they said someone would contact me. Attempted to phone HSBC but didn't have sufficient credit to make the 0845 call. Spend some time on the internet trying to find another number for HSBC. My pin number is only stored in my head - it is not written down and isn't related to my DOB etc. So I can only assume that when friend J came to Asda with me that he noted the pin when I paid for the goods by card - the card machines at the self service checkout are quite exposed (thinking about it).
8. Found the number 01226 261 010 for telephone banking but it was after 10 PM so it was closed. Called the same number at 8AM the following morning and reported what had happened. Was told the fraud team would contact me with regards to the incident and refund.
9. Had a missed call on Friday 22nd from HSBC who were trying to contact me - phoned them back but fraud dept only open from 09:00 to 15:30 Mon to Fri. On Monday 25th send a private message to HSBC through internet banking saying I had no credit (or food) and asked the fraud dept to call me back.
10. 14:00 HSBC fraud dept call me - I explain the above and they say that 'it was breach of trust' and therefore they won't refund and the only way to get my money back is to pursue friend E and J in court.
The money in my account was for housing benefit and JSA - so I can't pay my rent and I'm stuffed for food etc. I explained this to HSBC but to no avail.
Are HSBC being reasonable? Thanks in advance for any advice / help.
Phil
1. Friends at my house on 15/06 (2 friends i've known for about 4 months whom I refer to as E and J). Housing benefit and JSA cleared in my account around 2 AM on 15/06. Went to Asda with friend J. Friend E stayed at my house. Bought a bottle of booze, pizza and some oven chips - went to the self service checkout and paid by debit card.
2. Returned to my house, Friends J and E shared the booze with me and we had some pizza.
3. Later, friend E became very flirty but I felt my wallet being removed from my pocket. Confronted friend E and asked for my wallet back. Friend E pointed out that my wallet was on the floor. I picked the wallet up and looked at the cards in my wallet. My HSBC debit card was missing.
4. Confronted friend E again, said I would count to ten and if she didn't return the card I would throw them out. Counted to 10, no card so threw them out. Approx time 06:40 on 15/06.
5. Noticed that my mobile phone had also gone from the coffee table. Approx ten minutes later my letterbox opened and my card and phone were posted - I could see the outline of friend E through the glass in front door. I assumed that they'd realised they had been very silly and had thought better of it.
6. Approx 8PM on 15/06 I went to the cash machine and attempted to withdraw £50 which was declined due to insufficient funds. I was surprised so came back to the house and checked internet banking. £470 cash had been taken from the same ATM at 06:44.
7. Phoned the local police and explained what had happened - they said someone would contact me. Attempted to phone HSBC but didn't have sufficient credit to make the 0845 call. Spend some time on the internet trying to find another number for HSBC. My pin number is only stored in my head - it is not written down and isn't related to my DOB etc. So I can only assume that when friend J came to Asda with me that he noted the pin when I paid for the goods by card - the card machines at the self service checkout are quite exposed (thinking about it).
8. Found the number 01226 261 010 for telephone banking but it was after 10 PM so it was closed. Called the same number at 8AM the following morning and reported what had happened. Was told the fraud team would contact me with regards to the incident and refund.
9. Had a missed call on Friday 22nd from HSBC who were trying to contact me - phoned them back but fraud dept only open from 09:00 to 15:30 Mon to Fri. On Monday 25th send a private message to HSBC through internet banking saying I had no credit (or food) and asked the fraud dept to call me back.
10. 14:00 HSBC fraud dept call me - I explain the above and they say that 'it was breach of trust' and therefore they won't refund and the only way to get my money back is to pursue friend E and J in court.
The money in my account was for housing benefit and JSA - so I can't pay my rent and I'm stuffed for food etc. I explained this to HSBC but to no avail.
Are HSBC being reasonable? Thanks in advance for any advice / help.
Phil
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Comments
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With these type of things, its best to never even mention who you think may be involved. Much better to just say you didn't make a transaction. Fraud departments don't want to know about it if you know it was someone you know.0
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I would say yes, they are being reasonable. HSBC had no input into your choice of 'friends' and should not have to pick up the pieces of that poor judgement.0
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Yep, I admit that it was a poor choice of friends (I was actually trying to help one of them). But couldn't you say the same thing about an employee etc who rips off a company - your fault for employing them...
My view is that it is either fraud or not - if it's fraud then HSBC should refund.
Guess that's why I've asked for advice/help.0 -
I imagine you will have to formally report the crime to the Police (did they actually get back to you after you rang them?). Once they pursue their investigation, it will make it much easier for you to appeal to HSBC.0
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A police officer came to see me - I explained all of the above and they took notes. They then asked if I wanted to make a formal statement and to be honest I decided to have a think about it.
Please don't jump to the wrong conclusion - I was trying to help (wish I hadn't) the person E. This person has had a bit of a 'hard' life (to say the least) and I'm aware that if I proceed with the police enquiry that they will be locked up for a while.
I seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place - maybe I'm being too soft? I don't want to pursue this issue from a revenge point of view - I feel sorry that these individuals conspired to do this as I have offered nothing but help to them.
I have a calling card from West Yorkshire police with their details but wonder if my decision to prosecute will affect decisions made by HSBC . To be honest, I need the money so I have no option but to follow a path which will result in a refund etc.
Wish I was the sort of person who wouldn't think twice about prosecuting these individuals ... but the reality is that I feel for these individuals - I want the best for them. I know some people would think I'm an idiot - maybe I am?
After speaking with the police officer I was informed that I could make a statement at any point in time - I guess I may have to do this. Shame really but I'm sort of running out of options as my bank balance of 11p limits what I can do.
Oh heck!
Phil0 -
£470 cash had been taken from the same ATM at 06:44.
Doesnt HSBC have a £300 daily cash withdrawal limit?0 -
Hi
I've just hit hard times (or something) - In the past I was an IT contractor doing development in Notes/Domino and as such I had my daily withdrawal allowance increased to £500. It wasn't alot of money at the time but it is now!
I've reported the facts here - I was looking for advice.0 -
Hi
I've just hit hard times (or something) - In the past I was an IT contractor doing development in Notes/Domino and as such I had my daily withdrawal allowance increased to £500. It wasn't alot of money at the time but it is now!
I've reported the facts here - I was looking for advice.
If you've hit "hard times" then why on earth are you trying to protect someone, who you seemingly barely know, who manipulated and stole from you just because they themselves "had a hard life"?
If theft of £470 is enough to get them "locked up for a while" - then presumably they've done some rather nasty things in the past as well? I don't see how letting them get away with fraud can solve any of that. You aren't being an "idiot" as such, but you need to stop protecting such low lives.0 -
At the moment nobody has asked if I have (or not) gone ahead with the prosecution of the individuals - HSBC have the police reference number etc.
HSBC have simply said this is 'breach of trust' and therefore won't refund - this appears to directly contravene FSA regulations.
I am happy to prosecute the individuals if deemed necessary - I am also happy to challenge HSBC in court if I have a case.
Once again, just looking for advice/help.0 -
Look at this from HSBC's point of view.
You make a claim of fraud - effectively, theft - but you refuse to report that theft to the Police, formally. So now, it rather looks like a minor "spat" or disagreement between friends.
I don't think you can have it both ways. If you want HSBC to treat this as fraud, then you have to treat it as a theft.
What does the friend say about taking the cash?Warning ..... I'm a peri-menopausal axe-wielding maniac
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